What sort of pass rate of CGP/GL papers do you need for grammar schools?

[BugsInTheBed]

What sort of pass rate of CGP/GL papers do you need for grammar schools?

Just that really. We are preparing for Dorset Grammar Schools - lots of people enter these so there's stiff competition (ie not a grammar county) but I can't find out where she should be roughly on the mock papers.

Also the CGP past papers (we bought a bundle) seem at different levels...

I wonder if I needed to phrase this differently.

We're prepping for 11+ and not sure if to aim for 80/90 % on mock tests for if say 70% or 65% average is okay!

Anyone able to say what their children were scoring before they sat their 11+?

It'll depend on the school really. The grammar near us (nor Dorset) isn't super-selective and the general consensus is that the entry level is around 60-70%. That's based on people who've not been offered places as the ones who do get offers aren't given their mark. The ones who don't are given their mark, and local "gossip" from those who havn't got a place is that the marks given are typically anything under around 65%. If your local school is super-selective due to very high numbers of high achievers applying, then the entry level could well be over 90%. Can you talk to other local people with older children to get their experiences, or even better, a local 11+ tutor will have hands-on experience of which of their past pupils were successful and what kind of level they were working at in mock tests etc.

I've been trying to ask around but many people dont have older siblings or can't remember what they got ...

Even the elevenplusforum doesnt seem to say particulalry. Its not active in my area this year unhelpfully!

We're also not in your area, but are in another not fully grammar area (in the West Midlands) where only a very small percentage get a place. My DD did the 11 plus last year, and although she did a couple of CGP papers at home, it was more revealing to do in-person mock tests locally:

One local tuition centre included a useful guide with mock tests results, eg 'a child achieving XX% on this paper in [month] is likely to get into the grammar school of their choice.' This we found to be fairly accurate with a small sample of children, eg those that were comfortably over the % got an offer, and one child who scored 1% lower got a place off the waiting list.

DD also did a mock at a large local test centre, and although they didn't indicate what percentage was needed, their results included a comparison of your child against the cohort that sat the same test, so you had a feeling for their chances compared with others.

Oh fab. How were they scoring in tests at home/in the mocks? How did that tramslate to her score in the real thing?

I’m in Trafford. My son was getting between 85 -96% on the practice papers (CGP). He got 91% on the day. (I don’t think that’s a mark, though, I think it’s a centipede, not quite sure). He didn’t entirely finish the paper and cried when he got home as he was convinced he wouldn’t pass. It got him into our local grammar which was our first choice.I don’t think it would get him into other grammars in the area which require a different postcode. We had the extra advantage of being very close to the particular school we all wanted for him.

Haha a centile, not a centipede! 😂

I think the pass mark this year was around 280 or 290 or so for the Poole Grammars and just over 300 for BSB and BSG. Im not sure what percentage that was. We dont know that many other children going but out of those all that passed got in. We are all walking distance from the Bournemouth schools though, which will have helped. If I can find the letter I will post the exact pass marks.

DD was still struggling to complete the practice papers in the required time frame at this stage last year but sped up over the summer and passed with lots of leeway.

Thanks Mistlewoe it sounds like he did very well.

@DialsMavis Ooooh local (ish) person! I can see the scores for getting in - but they're standardised scores so it's really hard to work from that how much they need to pass if that makes sense.

Congratulations on your daughter passing - I hope she enjoys it - did she enjoy the transfer day?

If you dont mind me asking (feel free to ignore me if you do!)...

Do you know what sort of percentage she was getting on tests? Did you use GL's practice tests of CGP? It would be great to hear what sort of marks those who got in were getting now, if that makes sense. And whether she needs to get to 90% or not.

Oh what prep did you do with her over the summer.....

My child has progressed so much this year and is confident with percentages/ fractions/expressions in a way she wasn't even 6 months ago. But it's hard to know what to aim for. I don't want to over burden her over the summer...but if she's close to it it is worth working for. In my mind...

She loved her transition day!

She was getting very high percentages (90 from memory) but taking far too long to complete the tests. Over the summer we were doing some exercises every day at home, maybe 20 mins? Im sorry I can't remember which type, bit of both I think, but focusing on whichever type was the right one for the exam, the type with no NVR, sorry to not be much help, the information has left my head!

I really didn't want it to be a hassle so we had a reward if she did the practice off her own back as I didn't want it to be a stress. We promised early ear piercing if she cracked on and worked independently as it would show she was mature enough to have them done before we would choose. It worked a treat and she only needed a gentle reminder every now and then.

I can't quite recall but with DC1, they were getting lower scores on the CGP (when we started doing the papers probably 60-65% rising to 75-80%) papers than GL (sometimes in the high 90s, more often 75-80%). DC1 comfortably passed Bexley and Kent. Said they felt Kent easier (and scored higher). Vocab very important and if I were to do it again, I would worry less about getting a very strong score in maths and focus on English/vocab and quick recall if doing a CEM test (such as Bexley). Good luck!

In Dorset, in catchment, you would likely be OK with around 65% on the day but I'd be aiming for more like 75-80% in practice. You don't have to pass each subject, but just need a total score of just over 300, usually (Parkstone is a little lower due to more places)
They will take c half of those who apply, which equates to the top 16% or so by ability. However, with tutoring, mock tests and lots of practice papers at home a lot of students in the top 40-50% but not the top 16% will pass, pushing out some of those who are academically able enough who haven't prepared.
Out of catchment it varies a lot. I'd say you will likely need 75%+ on the day unless you are pupil premium.
Have you taken a mock exam? The reports are usually pretty honest about your child's chances, strengths and weaknesses.

Oh and in catchment and you pass, I've not known one not get in (over the past few years)

Thanks that's really useful. 65% was lower than I'd imagined so we're doing okay if she carries on as she is.

We've got a pack of GL mock tests at home the level seems to vary a bit. She's 80-85 ish usually. Some 91/93 and one English one was 65 which was a much lower one which made me worry she might "drop" on the day with an odd comprehension.

We're in catchment thankfully. I have tried to do a bit each day (mix of cgp 10 minute tests and the cgp maths book end of topic tests ). I will see if we can do a couple more practice papers.

Thankyou.

DialMavis - hope she has a fantastic time there! Hopefully my daughter will follow!

Personally I'd also try some other papers than the official ones-Collins papers are quite hard, or maybe try CGP and definitely prepare her for the English paper having 65 questions including two comprehensions so if doing the 50 mark ones, try to complete in 35 mins. None of the practice ones are like that but it happens A LOT.

Apologies, @BugsInTheBed, for not having replied when you responded to my response from last month!

I've just looked back at my notes from last summer, which I was impressed to see I had recorded very carefully! My DD did three CGP mocks at home in July/August 2021, with each section timed very strictly. She got the exact same overall % each time, which is quite funny!

CGP set 4 paper 1:
81% overall (85% VR, 79% NVR, 74% numerical reasoning)

CGP set 4 paper 2:
81% overall (87% VR, 86% NVR, 68% numerical reasoning)

CGP set 1 paper 1:
81% overall (81% VR, 79% NVR, 83% numerical reasoning)

She found the actual test (CEM) in September 2021 easier than the various mocks she did, and scored comfortably above the required scores for the previous five years for all of our local grammars (West Midlands).

Thanks both if you.

Well done to your DD LetItGo! My child doesnt mind doing a bit here and there but its much harder getting her to do a proper timed test - I am hoping to do a couple before september!!