Would you pay for private education when there is a very good state alternative?

[alfiesbabe]

I know this is a contentious issue, but am really interested to hear other people's views. Our situation: have just moved DS (Yr 9)from private to local state school. (His choice). He had been on a scholarship as a chorister, and finished in the choir, but money wasn't an issue as DH teaches in the private school so we paid peanuts for fees. DS is really happy and likes the wider range of students. He is in top sets for most subjects and reports back that the work is more challenging and behaviour better than was the case in his previous class. He gets less homework, but to my mind what he does get is more relevant (eg in maths he might get set 5 questions to test that he has understood a teaching point, whereas at the private school he'd be set several pages of the same type of question). Results wise, the private school had 85% 5 A-C passes, the state school had 72%. Bearing in mind the state school has the full ability range, whereas the private school is selective, this smacks to me of better teaching in the state school. It seems like a very small difference considering parents are paying about 12K a year for the private school. A-level results are similar - statistically the private school is a little better, but not by much. The private school offers more in the way of music and sport; but DS has gone as far as he wants with music for the moment and isnt bothered about sport. I'm not looking for validation of our choice - we know we've made the right decision - but I'm left with this feeling of 'What were we actually paying school fees for?' The experience as a chorister was valuable, but I can't get my head round parents who pay the full whack, specially if their child isnt musical or sporty. I'm aware that our local state school is outstanding and we're very lucky in this respect. So.... why WOULD anyone pay for private in this situation?

But how can they avoid all types of children if they are in the private schools you mention?

I think that NKF should come back and let me get on with my work

She said "What if you don't want your children to mix with all sorts of people? After all, for many people it's the "all sorts" that makes them desperate for private education."

By this I think NKF meant "undesirables" in the educational sense of the word. Children who are disruptive, don't want to get educated, ASBO-fodder, poison the atmosphere of learning and are otherwise the nightmare vision of Daily Telegraph readers.

They aren't often to be found in private schools

Do you think though, Quattro that is because the private sector is smaller? (Serious question).
I have to say, ds is state schooled and we've come across very few (if any) 'Asbo' children. I accept that is probably down to geography.

FWIW I am very glad my mum sent me to the little primary school attached to the council estate rather than the primary school down our road with the better reputation.

There were lots of disruptive children there but I developed compassion and understanding of different people's circumstances (and in some cases, how much luckier I was) and an ability to get on with people from different backgrounds and cultures. And I learnt things too!

What did you learn Umlella? How to steal cars and shoplift, I bet

I agree with MrsRuffalo about state/private schools not all being bad/good. Most of my friends have state-educated their dc and all the offspring seem to be doing pretty well in life.

As for 'undesireables', it's the privately educated children who swear and moon at people in the town where my mother lives, and it's my dd1's privately educated friends who do the most drugs. Must be because their parents can afford to given them a bigger allowance....

'undesirables' even. Also, one of dd1's uni friends was in the same school and year as Xenia's dd and hated it, couldn't wait to leave.

See, I often wonder if this undesirables thing is just a myth too. But as I don't send my dcs private, I wouldn't know that for sure.
What I do know is that we've not really encountered any in the state schools that my dcs are at.

Absolutely, suedonim. A lot of state educated children I know who have done well are so grounded and hard working, a joy to be around.

I don't equate both parents working as parents being absent which is insulting to working parents. Most parents both work. You can be a housewife and absent in the sense of relationships with children. That is a psychological issue, not entirely one of contact time. Most working parents rush home to talk to their children. That's the norm. Absence if less a problem in private schools because the school day is longer and parents and children are therefore more likely to be getting home around the same time.

As for someone finding a child in my daughter's class who didn't like it well that's a shame but most girls love my daughters' old schools. You will always in any school have someone however who doesn't like it. That doesn't prove one way or the other whether Habs/NLCS is worse than say one of the better comps or few state grammar schools that remain.

I have said before that I like my children educated with other clever children. That is segregation but that doesn't mean they are isolated in life from people who aren't very bright because they live normal integrated lives and meet all kinds of people all the time.

I agree that some children from state schools will be grounded and hardworking. As will of course some children from private schools, but possibly a greater proportion of them will be grounded and hardworking at an academic selective school (I choose the form of school advisedly) where work is de rigueur, and more rigorous too

I am sure they are not isolated from people who aren't very bright Xenia

That is what Xenia was saying ... she wanted them educated alongside bright people but not necessarily isolated from them. I think?

Hmm... definition of 'undesirables.' Yes, it would include 'ASBO fodder' and chair-chuckers and swearers, but I think there's a growing problem, in all schools private and state, of 'kids with attitude.' That's not meaning sparky, lively kids with confident opinions to offer, but arrogant cock-sure ones who know their 'rights' and will wheel in their parents to defend their poor behaviour. That, in my opinion, is creating a massive issue in schools because it's eroding teachers' authority, and then everyone suffers.

My state-educated children have been educated with other clever children; there are a few in the state system, doncha know. In fact, my ds2 is the most highly educated of any of our friends' dc. And he has manners, speaks well (he lectures world-wide), and all that stuff. As for patina, he has that too - I polished him with Mr Sheen on a daily basis from birth to 18.

Rofl at Suedonim.

Agree, suedonim. My dd has several very bright friends in her class, doncha know?

Getting a good education out of the private system is easier IMO.

But whether state or private, getting a good education depends upon the parents' (primarily the mother's) level of educational attainment, good teachers, the child's hunger for learning and the child's peergroup.

If you've got all those factors right and you know you have, then why sweat over school choice?

I think you're absolutely right Q, and am glad that at the mo am not having to pay for it.

Isn't patina something that happens when you leave something outside in all weathers?

Patina was not my word but I think there is something in the argument. I think there was a study once upon a time somewhere that showed that people from private schools were better at talking (or blagging) their way into university than their state educated counterparts.

Mr Hab has had some experience in interviewing potential university students at "top" universities. The "patina" can often be blagging and style over substance. Fine if that's how you want your children to progress, but I want my daughter to achieve genuinely on merit and ability. And yes, that will include the ability to speak good standard English clearly, to hold intelligent, thoughtful conversations, and to make a reasoned argument, but not that she'll have to trade her Scottish accent for RP, or have the "right" hobbies for example.

Oh bah - only popped in to be frivolous...