Would you pay for private education when there is a very good state alternative?

[alfiesbabe]

I know this is a contentious issue, but am really interested to hear other people's views. Our situation: have just moved DS (Yr 9)from private to local state school. (His choice). He had been on a scholarship as a chorister, and finished in the choir, but money wasn't an issue as DH teaches in the private school so we paid peanuts for fees. DS is really happy and likes the wider range of students. He is in top sets for most subjects and reports back that the work is more challenging and behaviour better than was the case in his previous class. He gets less homework, but to my mind what he does get is more relevant (eg in maths he might get set 5 questions to test that he has understood a teaching point, whereas at the private school he'd be set several pages of the same type of question). Results wise, the private school had 85% 5 A-C passes, the state school had 72%. Bearing in mind the state school has the full ability range, whereas the private school is selective, this smacks to me of better teaching in the state school. It seems like a very small difference considering parents are paying about 12K a year for the private school. A-level results are similar - statistically the private school is a little better, but not by much. The private school offers more in the way of music and sport; but DS has gone as far as he wants with music for the moment and isnt bothered about sport. I'm not looking for validation of our choice - we know we've made the right decision - but I'm left with this feeling of 'What were we actually paying school fees for?' The experience as a chorister was valuable, but I can't get my head round parents who pay the full whack, specially if their child isnt musical or sporty. I'm aware that our local state school is outstanding and we're very lucky in this respect. So.... why WOULD anyone pay for private in this situation?

Gah - I can only imagine.

Why pay? DS has just moved to private school from state. He loves the 'harder' work and now has loads of friends. He's extremely bright and at state school he was bored and was not moved onwards by the teacher. Few boys had the same interests as him and he only had a small circle of friends.

It was a big decision to move him, and pay, but so far it's worth it!

The state has the responsibility to educated all pupils; independent schools do not. If a child is unable to fulfil their parents' contract with the independent school, then one of the options is that the contract is terminated. The needs of all the pupils need to be taken into account - not just the disruptive child.

I think some children maybe need the more sheltered environment of a private school. As a SENCO, I've seen a few children move to private, often when they've had trouble establishing friendships within a state school, or because, as described in an earlier post, they have very specific hobbies/interests and they don't flourish in a broader environment. I suppose a lot of my reservations are that in the wider world (ie real life) we have to encounter all sorts of people and you're probably going to have a happier life if you're confident that you can mix with a good range of people and confident that you've achieved what you have in life through your own merits.

So much is made of mixing...to what extent does anyone need to mix across the social economic strata? I don't think it's that much tbh, and it's perfectly possible to be polite and cordial (in fact, manners are de rigeur in private schools, so pleases and thankyous are automatic).

Mixing across cultural boundaries is probably something that is more important in today's society, and private school pupils learn this from a very early age.

marina - ds1 is now gcse year is that year 11? and ds2 is year 6

when taking the entrance exam last october with ds2 - i noticed a HUGE increase in the number of prep school uniforms (majority out of-area) sitting the exam compared to when ds1 sat 5 years ago.

Really paula is that for one specific school though, or the collective exam for the borough grammars? (or NW Kent which I thought had a much bigger intake from private schools)
I was extrapolating from our own in-area non-academic selective prep (there are only two others I would consider in catchment btw) where all children sit and almost all pass the 11 plus, but only about 5 take up places most years. So that's not a huge number in our case.

Well knowing about your positive experiences of Hackney, dino , was one of the reasons why I did wonder whether Umlellala's comparison of the two areas (N and S of the river) was accurate. It sounds to me like Hackney are doing a lot of things right just now - whatever Greenwich do, standards are still falling. On the whole I like my local authority - it's great for recycling, good libraries etc...so why is Education so poor in comparison
Your school is the kind of place anyone would be happy to send their children and the kind of place every child deserves

one specific marina
they teach to the 11+ (verbal/non verbal reasoning) at the ocal prep schools despite the private secondary schools doing different exams...you can choose to attend whichever classes are appropriate to your school choice

The mixing thing is a complete red herring. Private school pupils are confident and self assured and much better at mixing with all kinds from their servants to their bosses than anyone from a state school. They learn manners and how to treat everyone with respect. Of course they mix better with more different people. State school parents who think it is the other way round are deluding themselves.

Drawn to the thread against my will - as this is an argument with such entrenched views that it will never get snywhere. But. Xenia, if you come to my county town I can take you to cafes frequented by the scions of privilege who attend a very well regarded private school that my state school daughter can't enter in uniform because of the whispered chant of 'chav, chav chav" that will start the minute she steps through the door. Delightful.

What happens when a private school child enters a cafe full of state school pupils?

Let me guess....

Where I grew up anywhere where a large group from one school encountered an individual from another school generally resulted in some verbal abuse.

Where I now live (in an outer London borough) the children from the two local Comprehensives delight in abusing each other whenever they meet. I don't think it is a private v. state thing - it's crowd mentality at work.

i am in this same dilemma waiting to hear what state primary DD1 has got into.

One i will be very happy with - top of richmond borough list, local catholic school. The others are all still very good, but i am considering a private school too.

my reasons for even considering the private school:

1. it is closer to my house - a few minutes walk.
2. the holidays are longer, so we will be able to go on holiday out of normal school time and so cheaper/better availability
3. the days are longer, so better for my work
4. swimming lessons, music etc on site - pay extra, but less carting/ferrying about for me
5. the classes are smaller
6. my DD appears to be bright. I am concerned she may get bored in a state school/overlooked - this is something i will be keeping a very close eye on. The state schools seem very OFSTED/Target driven - i am concerned that once they reach the required level the teachers will entirely focus on getting everyone up to that level.
7. i went to state (Catholic) schools, my two younger sisters private. Although my exam results are actually better my all round education is weaker (books read, general knowledge).

am sure i will think of more... interesting thread!

oh and the mixing thing is a red herring!

almost all my friends from university are private school educated, however a good few were state. The state school ones found university easier (i guess to have got the required grades they were generally brighter). However socially you cannot tell the difference.

Xenia, honestly
I found a lot of the public school men and women at university very ill-mannered actually, unless they could be sure they were engaging with one of their own. I thought their interpersonal skills at 18/22 left a lot to be desired - although I knew two Old Harrovians who were deservedly popular with absolutely everyone, possibly because they only divulged their origins under huge duress, rather than bragging about it.
And it doesn't improve with age either IMO.
I think you find limited outlooks and outright rudeness across all educational sectors, just as there are both excellent and dreadful private and state schools
paula, am puzzling over which school this could be - is it DGS, or maybe GGS?

All my friends who live in Europe [outside UK!] say the same thing, similar to what Cory was saying about Sweden, that you only send your child to private school in Europe if they are struggling and need extra help, the brightest always go to State Schools. the private school system in the UK seems peculiarly unique and born out of the class structure.
Having said that, I went to State School for nearly all my education [very good primary school where they actually had a music teacher - now they don't] but after lots of time in hospital my parents sent me to a prep school for a year to catch up. it was the best year of my school life. I was so happy there, and blossomed academically and creatively. When I went back into the State system my cinfidence and ability had changed profoundly. So i would definitely consider private [if i could afford it] though it would depend on the standard of state education in the area.

the standard of music and drama in a private school would be a big issue for me, can see why not for everyone, but I am personally very upset at the reduction of music to a luxury extra-curriculur addition in the State system.

I was at oxford where the majority of students were from public school, and many of them were unbearable [men especially] though not all. I suppose confidence can easily turn into arrogance. I did tend to have friends mostly from the minority state school intake.

In fact 56% of Oxbridge students are from state schools now. The majority.

well i wasn't there that long ago Ok, maybe 12,13 years. I think some colleges are still public school dominated, but hopefully it is changing.

ruty, I think the college thing is a big factor. A friend at Jesus was surrounded by fellow state school students
at your brother batters
I can remember some of the public schoolboys in my hall of residence conducting a campaign of jokey abuse against some of the students who came from areas with obvious local accents - Liverpudlians, Norfolk, Sarf London eg. If any one of these people failed to see the funny side of this sneering, the fallback was always "sense of humour failure, it's only a joke"
A lot of them did come from a fairly crap public school though, so I expect it was envy of the state school students