KS1 Class size appeal - advice please

[Cheeky666]

Hello! Any advice welcome, especially from successful appealees or panel members.

My DD was refused a place from our local school. I’ve been told that this is a class size appeal and that these are very rare to win. I know all this, but I have some specific circumstances I’m not sure they’ve considered. There is a prohibited steps order in place for her to protect her from abduction and I have a health condition that require frequent emergency and urgent surgeries. I have no support network except for 1 neighbour who takes my child to school on days I can’t walk. I need to be close to the school for emergencies and I need to be able to get her to the school which will be impossible with the school we’ve been given.

Please don’t come on lecturing about the negative impacts of 31+ classes. Trust me, if I had the choice I’d happily move her from the preschool there and never go to the school again. I’ve considered home learning but I work full time from home and it’s just not practical. I really don’t have the luxury of choice. This isn’t about “best school” or convenience so much as NEED at this stage in our lives.

Does anybody know what classifies as “perverse”? Do we have any chance at all here? Any help or advice would be very much appreciated!

Also, I’m not sure if this is relevant, but you might know…

the class size regulations don’t technically apply in Reception at this school because they admit 15 to each cohort, and reception share with preschool. So as long as there are two teaching assistants, if 50% or less turn 5 in that school year they can have up to 39 children. The year above her only has 11 children in. So technically when she becomes year 1 again, it is unlikely to break regulations. The year it could affect is year 2, if the school are over subscribed again in next year’s reception group. Then the following year regulations don’t cover year 3 upwards. I’ve highlighted this in the appeal. Any chance the panel would take that into consideration or are they not interested in this?

As you say, ICS appeals are hard to win. Issues around school run logistics aren’t enough. Of the things you’ve mentioned here, the one (I think) which is most likely to convince the panel is the prohibited steps order, but you would need to set out very clearly why the PSO makes it necessary for your child to attend this particular school. Otherwise (as prh47bridge says) the school are likely to argue that all schools are secure and the panel is likely to agree.

Thank you! I’m guessing that me believing it is safer because I can always get her there and back myself or with somebody I know and trust is not enough? The thought of handing her over to a stranger to take her to school (even if we had transport agreed) fills me with so much anxiety, would not be enough here? I live by the school, I can be there in a split second if anything happens or he turns up to take her… it has a very small number of students so she will never be missed out anywhere. It feels more secure to me, but that’s all subjective isn’t it?

do you think my info about the class size regs in my reply to admission has any weight?

i appreciate your advice. Thank you.

You have an almost zero chance of winning this. Mu guess is that the class filled way before they reached any criteria you would have been considered under.
Filling the class before considering children on a lower criteria doesn't make their decision perverse.

Your anxiety over her potentially having a taxi is not a factor either and your personal views on the school's perceived greater security are also irrelevant.

As others have said, your own health concerns are not relevant as it will be assumed you have a back up network.

Ah yes the old magic a support network out of thin air expectation.

We had this at our appeal. In our case, it was a 45 intake, the school had recently extended and the year group we were applying for (year 1) was the first cohort to be a 45 intake instead of 30. The year 2-6 classes were classes of 30, and the plan in years to come was to have split classes (2x reception classes of 22 + 23, then 30 in each of year 1 class, 1/2, 2, 3, 3/4, 4, 5, 5/6, 6). As the year ones were the first 45 intake, there was no 1/2 class so instead they had two year one classes of 22 & 23. The appeals board asked the head teacher why they couldn't admit my child as they were below 30, and the head (understandably) said that the following year when they go to years 1, 1/2 & 2 classes, they'd all be 30 then. Hope that makes sense!

I knew I had a very limited chance of winning anyway. How do people actually prove a school is the only school who can meet their child’s needs? What is required to prove this? Because from what I can see elsewhere panels dismiss Dr’s info, counsellors letters, MP letters etc. what kind of evidence is actually considered acceptable?

Also, what are your thoughts on the point:

where Pre-school/Nursery mix with Reception they are only subject to the 2012 Class Size Regulations “where the majority of children will attain the age of 5 during the school year”. All of the statutory information I can find relating to this situation indicates that the Class Size Regulations only apply to Reception, Year 1 and Year 2. If more than 50% of the class are of nursery age, and under age 5, there can be up to 39 children to 1 qualified teacher. Currently there are only 12pupils (possibly 11 by the end of the school year) in the Reception year that will become year 1. This is the year my DD will alternate with.

Surely if I can’t win an appeal based on the fact that you can’t assume the numbers remain the same for future years, how can I lose it because the school has assumed an impact on consecutive years?

Hi there,

it does make sense absolutely, thanks.

In our situ, in her Reception year she will be in with Pre-school and the pre-school also has a 15 max PAN. So the class size regs don’t apply that year. In the following year, she’ll share space with 11 other children (current reception number. So as things stand, that wouldn’t breach class size regulations either. The only year of question currently would be year 2, as the following year (year 3 upwards) the regs don’t apply any longer.

Surely if I can’t win an appeal based on the fact that you can’t assume the numbers for future years (I.e the school may fill the 4 vacancies in year 1), how can I lose it because the school has assumed an impact on consecutive years? Did you lose yours?

I think your next steps are to find out how many of each criteria they admitted to the school, they should send this to you prior to the appeal. Those in the criteria above you can be ignored.
The oversubscription criteria at our school goes (after SEN children with the school named on EHCP):
1 Looked after children
2 (a) Regular worshippers (at least 2x per month for 12 months) at the attached church
2 (b) Less frequent worshippers (1x p/m for 12m) at the attached church
3 (a) Regular worshippers at another Anglican Church, in catchment
3 (b) Less frequent worshippers at another Anglican Church, in catchment
4 Sibling + catchment
5 Catchment
6 Sibling
7 (a) Regular worshippers at another Anglican Church, out of catchment
7 (b) Less frequent worshippers at another Anglican Church, out if catchment
8 Child already attending the nursery
9 Any other children
Your may be a slightly different order/criteria. So, if you (for example) fall in to catagory 3b, there should be no children admitted who fall in to catagory 4 and below. If there are others in 3b with you, the preference should be given to those living closest to school, check they have the distance correct.
The appeals process (or was when we did it) was in 2 steps, first are the appeals board satisfied the admissions criteria was properly followed, and secondly, do the child's circumstances mean they should increase the class size to admit them to the school. Due to infant class sizes, you can only have the second step for children in juniors (year 3 up)

Yes, we lost. Ironically the following year the year 1 was one short so had 44 year 1 and 45 year 2, but they can only admit for that year groups PAN.

Sorry I've just noticed the numbers have displayed a bit wrong on my previous post. It should be 1, 2a, 2b, 3a, 3b, 4, 5, 6, 7a, 7b, 8, 9

@mnhq please could you get rid of the auto number system from the update, it's screwed my post up!

The class size thing is called 'future prejudice'. Appeals panels aren't allowed to direct schools about how they organise their classes. A parent may say "Well yes, there is a problem if you have mixed year groups, but I know you have a spare classroom and so you could employ another teacher and have single year classes." The panel can't say that it is a great idea and the school must do that.

The information that the panel has to consider is the PAN (Published admissions number) because the school is bound to admit up to that number. In fact, if someone appealed and the panel found that the number admitted was under PAN, the appeal would be successful straight away.

For this same reason, schools can't admit over PAN in one year to compensate for being under PAN in another because if a pupil from the under PAN year applied for a place they would still be bound to admit that pupil.

The question of numbers is not 'do we currently exceed Infant Class Size regulations?' It is 'if the school admitted up to the PAN, would admission of a further child breach the ICS regulations?' For your child, if they admit 15 per year group, if they used mix year classes, they end up with a year 1/2 class of 30 and that is the problem.

With regards the prohibited steps order, I can't see how being at a closer school protects your DD. The school policies and procedures are what protects her. Unless the school contacts you, you would be none the wiser at either school. Once the school procedures kick in, it wouldn't matter how long it takes you to get there, your DD would be safe.

Taxi transport is the norm for many, many children. For example, 90% of special school pupils arrive at school by taxi. In rural areas, most children get the bus to school from reception year. Because the allocated school is over 2 miles away, your DD will be entitled to transport. This is where your medical evidence will help determine the best mode of transport.

A panel is very unlikely to find that it is unreasonable to not grant a place on the basis of your arrangement with a neighbour. If you have no family ties to your current location, could you move closer to the allocated school? That would seem sensible.

As Lougle has explained, this appeal will be about future prejudice. The panel can’t allow your appeal just because another year group is currently below PAN.

I’m sure the panel will listen sympathetically, but what you have said so far about the PSO does not make me think they will allow the appeal on that basis. You would need to demonstrate that there is a risk to your child and that attending the preferred school would remove that risk. How quickly you can get to the school after an incident isn’t the issue here. Unless you can pinpoint how attending the preferred school would remove the risk, the panel is likely to conclude that PSOs are not rare and that all schools should be able to support children who are subject to them.

I'm really sorry, actually, that I didn't acknowledge how stressful this process is for you. I used to sit on panels and there were some panellists that refused to sit on ICS appeals because they couldn't stand hearing such compelling stories, when they knew that they would have to reject the appeal anyway. There is no room for compassion in ICS appeals.

The definition of 'unreasonable' is really tight and the bar is so very high. An example might be a police officer who has had death threats and their child has been allocated the school that the child of the perpetrator attends.

Common appeals involve a parent with 2 children allocated schools a 40 minute walk apart, both starting at the same time, but both within 2 miles of home. Mum doesn't drive. One child will always be late every day. Under the ICS rules there is nothing the panel can do because transport isn't the responsibility of the school/LA.

Can I ask, how do I get the information about classrooms etc? Do I need to ask for that now or is all evidence (school and mine) combined into a single pack for us to consider before the appeal?

I've Just checked the details of the school. By straight line measurement it is under 2miles. This is based on being able to walk across a golf course and wooded area. The footpath/road accessible route is 2.3 miles. Do you know which distance they use to calculate eligibility?

Moving isn’t really an option. The arrangement I have with my neighbour doesn’t just cover school. She has DD when I have medical appointments/school holidays etc. i own this property and have lived here 20+ years. I have looked at homes in the area, they’re currently outside my price range. I admit I considered it for ease, but it doesn’t really help me overall.

Thanks for the advice though! it’s so hard to find advice anywhere on what kind of evidence panels DO accept. It’s all about what they don’t accept.

The footpath/road accessible route is 2.3 miles. Do you know which distance they use to calculate eligibility?

Transport eligibility uses safest walking route not crow flies distance, so your dc will qualify for free travel to and from the allocated school.

Most of my story won’t help, but we were successful so I thought I’d share it anyway. We moved to the area in June so places had already been allocated, we had a place at a school less than 2 miles away but it involved a bus ride and crossing a dual carriage way with no crossings, would have resulted in one of us having to change jobs due to the timings.

The school we appealed for was 0.2 miles away so very close. I did a lot of research about the school and size of the school, I gathered the info about how many appeals had been successful in previous years, how big the school was (they had a spare classroom which isn’t needed but technically it means there is spare square footage if needed), because older classes weren’t all full it meant the school overall was about 10 below it’s max possible numbers. We also visited the school and chatted to the head who was happy to welcome more pupils as he new the school could cope with it, but obviously it’s not something he personally could allow. I presented my argument in a very well presented factual way rather than emotional, although I did include the the relevant info about the road and travel, I’m not sure why they agreed in the end but they allowed ours and one other appeal to be successful that day. This put the class number at 32, several other kids moved away before the start of the school year and I believe someone that was still on the waiting list even got in. So I would make sure you are on that waiting list too. There’s still 31 in the class now years on as more have come and gone over the years. Fingers crossed for you OP.

To add, it would have been impossible for us to walk to the school as there are no pavements along the dual carriage way, not sure if that contributed as we had no car.

I’m sorry you are in this situation and I hope your appeal is successful although I’d advice you to be realistic that it won’t be.

I’m assuming you mean YR and not KS1 from your posts, so apologies if I’m wrong. Looking at the admissions data, if the circumstances described had changed the admissions category she would have come under, would she still have received a place and how far down the waiting list is she?

Is the allocated school one you are in catchment for and your second nearest? I’m assuming you provided three possible schools so where on the waiting lists for the other two is she? There is a lot of reshuffling between April and September, so a good chance she will get a place to one of your three options.

Unfortunately I think you are the exception rather than the rule, but I'm glad you got in ☺️

The only grounds OP has is if they didn't apply the admissions criteria correctly (ie placing them in the wrong criteria catagory or miscalculating the distance). There's very limited circumstances the infant class size can be breached, and the OP doesn't (unfortunately, I'm very sorry) appear to fulfil that - children with an EHCP where there's no other suitable school, looked after children or an armed forces child. Hopefully though there'll be some movement before September and they'll get a space ☺️

Thanks Snowyowl. I know I have less than 1% chance. It’s worth the shot for me though.

im not sure if she would have gotten in. I actually think her original category was higher than they social and medical weirdly but I don’t think they got down to her category. So I know my chances are slim.

i think I’m out of catchment for the area but in the last two years they’ve doubled their intake. They now take 60 a year, two classes of 30, so I think a lot of people who don’t get their first choice are now sent to this one. The Head at the new school is amazing. I genuinely have nothing against the school. I’m not fighting this because I hate the school or anything, I just genuinely believe after what she’s been through, the traumas she’s experienced, the risks etc, I’d feel more comfortable with her being closer to me. I do understand that this isn’t a good enough reason for a class size appeal though and appreciate what everyone has said. Even the counsellor’s letter states that she believes removing her from the pre-school where she is now (at her first choice school) and moving her to the new one is going to have a detrimental impact on her, but again, I know this won’t matter to ICS panels either. Heartbreaking really. So it’s worth a shot but in the meantime I’m being realistic and the advice on here about transport etc has been helpful so I’m glad I posted :)

Thanks batterberg and Phillipa,

really appreciate the posts from both of you. I’m definitely on the waiting list but I’m not sure they’ll want us if we don’t actually get in through appeal. I’ve raised concerns about how ethical the school has been throughout the admissions period. I’ve discovered that 4 children have been helped by the school to be baptised RC to ensure their admission even when they live 5+ miles away. Apparently according to the schools (when I asked directly why they’d done that) it’s because they know the families really well as their older children used to attend a number of years ago. I know people will say “yeah faith schools always do that” but I still wanted to point out that surely that’s not a fair and transparent way to operate as an admissions authority. So… I’m sure when they list is transferred to the school my LO won’t have a chance at all. Part of me wishes I’d not added it (I even included a letter from one of the families stating that it happened) and I know it won’t make a difference either so I feel I probably have even less change of her getting in once we fail at appeal.

BUT the cards will fall as they’re meant to, and if she doesn’t go there, we will still have each other and I’m sure we’ll make it work one way or another and we’re luckier than most so I’ll try and keep my chin up! ❤️

If that is the case re. Intake numbers is it not likely that other children or childminders will be making the same journey to allocated school? Are you the only one from the preschool without a Reception place?

Hi Lizs,

There are 3 children from the pre-school who didn’t get in. Mine, another girl on the next street but her mum got her second choice which was a school near to the child’s father, and my next door neighbour whose child has Downs Syndrome. She’s waiting for her EHCP to be finalised and it will name the school where they are now. She’s applying for her to be moved down a year anyway, because she’s a July baby and very behind in her development due to heart and respiratory issues. Either way she’s not going to the school.

i know it sounds strange, but all the other children it caters for come from the other side of the school. I’ve never heard of anybody in my area going there. I’ve even put something out on local groups to see what the feeling is and so far haven’t come across anybody who is making the journey to this school. Even the Head at the new school said it’s strange. He just kept apologising like he understood how strange it all was haha.

Sorry, only just saw the questions - but I think people have already answered your question re PAN and so on.

ICS appeals are brutal. Unless they actually made an error, you really don't stand a chance.

And in answer to being able to prove that a school is the only one that can meet your child's needs, you would need something truly exceptional. For example, your child is a kidnap risk from an international crime syndicate and that is the only school with an armed guard. I am saying this tongue-in-cheek but really I am only half-joking because, as I said, it is brutal.

Anyway, fingers crossed. And also, on the positive side, if she were to get... even if it is in the future, perhaps from the waiting list should someone leave, they are unlikely to hold all your appeal arguments against you/her... schools are normally aware of how the appeals game is played and they will have seen it all before.