KS1 Class size appeal - advice please

[Cheeky666]

Hello! Any advice welcome, especially from successful appealees or panel members.

My DD was refused a place from our local school. I’ve been told that this is a class size appeal and that these are very rare to win. I know all this, but I have some specific circumstances I’m not sure they’ve considered. There is a prohibited steps order in place for her to protect her from abduction and I have a health condition that require frequent emergency and urgent surgeries. I have no support network except for 1 neighbour who takes my child to school on days I can’t walk. I need to be close to the school for emergencies and I need to be able to get her to the school which will be impossible with the school we’ve been given.

Please don’t come on lecturing about the negative impacts of 31+ classes. Trust me, if I had the choice I’d happily move her from the preschool there and never go to the school again. I’ve considered home learning but I work full time from home and it’s just not practical. I really don’t have the luxury of choice. This isn’t about “best school” or convenience so much as NEED at this stage in our lives.

Does anybody know what classifies as “perverse”? Do we have any chance at all here? Any help or advice would be very much appreciated!

For a decision to be regarded as perverse it has to be one that no reasonable person would have made. In essence, it has to be irrational based on the information that was available to the admission authority at the time.

It is not clear that the decision in your case was perverse. Any school should be able to protect your child from abduction and the other points seem to be around things that are problems for you rather than your child.

That doesn't necessarily mean you will lose. You may get a sympathetic panel. But, on the information you have posted, it is a long shot.

I think you need to work closely with the school you have been allocated. Is it a safe walking route? Could there be school transport on offer? Who looks after DC now if you are in hospital? I think you need to think about what you do now at times of emergency and extend that to school. Distance from school doesn’t seem to be the real issue here.

Was there a social or medical needs criteria on the Admissions form, did you submit any evidence in support if so? What "emergencies" do you envisage? Are you wfh or elsewhere(where a school may have space)? Is she on wl?

Hi, thanks for replying. I wish there were more examples for what is considered perverse. The only one I can find is “child under witness protection moving into the area” would be great if anybody has any other experiences of when they’ve won on those grounds.

i do believe it wasn’t a rational decision, the admissions authority was the school governors. I have checked with several other admission authorities and all have said that in our circumstances we would have been categorised under the “social medical and welfare needs”, and therefore categories 1b or 2.

My solicitor has said that the Prohibited Steps order should suffice as evidence of her risk, as I’m not allowed to share any of the court documents but has agreed to speak to the panel on the day if they require further information. My MP is supporting our case and I have submitted medical evidence which as you say, relates to me not my daughter… but explains why physically and for the next 3yrs or so, she will have to have significant time off when I can’t get her to school.

My parents are in their 70s nearly 80s with health issues of their own. I can sometimes get them to collect her or stay over but it depends on how they are. When it’s planned surgery she stays with my neighbour whose little boy is in the same class, and she takes her to school for me. He got in, so there’s no way could help with a different school as she has an older child she needs to get to high school too. She is my “in case of emergency” person too.

Honestly, if I could get her to another school without issue I wouldn’t waste my time on the appeal. I’ve considered home learning but I work from home full time and this school is quite literally across the road from our house.

i know it’s a long shot, and I know my appeal will upset the school because I’ve queried their admissions policy and whether they’re adhering to it as they should. But I really feel I have no other options.

Hi, yes there were social and medical needs on the application form and I completed it. I also sent evidence to the Head (as she’s in the pre-school there already and the admissions pages on the council website said evidence should be sent to the Head) I also copied in the pupil access team. I’ve put her on the waiting list there but I know there are at least 3 children above her. I’ll find out her exact place on the waiting list on the 20th May.

i can’t even defer her entry and hope for a place because she’s 5 in early October.

I’m working from home full time whilst I have this disease, because I can’t walk or drive long distances and when I do have surgeries, it’s 2-6 weeks before I can drive in some cases. This school is across the road from my house, the other is 2.5miles.

There could be several emergencies. I could be taken into hospital in which case it’s my neighbour who collects her along with her son. My parents are elderly and unable to help as much as they like. They also don’t live locally to me. If someone tried to collect her from school I could be there in 2minutes compared to 20minutes at the other school. The worst part is the threats to take her always included school so I know some of it is my anxiety and won’t be taken into account, but I genuinely feel she won’t be as safe in the other school and that’s causing me so much stress at the moment! I’m sure most people will look at this clinically and go “yeah, no chance” but I’m hoping against hope that someone on the panel can see why the other place is near impossible for us at this moment in time.

If you neighbours ds got in was that purely on distance or some higher criteria (sibling, Sen, faith etc). If distance does that place your dc high on waiting list? I fear logistics won't win this fir you, are there any local child-minders doing school runs to allocated school?

I'm sorry you're in this situation, I've been in the schools appeals process and it's emotionally exhausting.

I'd be questioning why you didn't get in based on distance - I assume you put it first choice. Is it possible they have made a mistake calculating distance, you sound awfully close. Or did the other people who got in all live closer/had other higher criteria? Is the school you have been allocated the one you put as second choice, or are there others closer that you put as other choices but you didn't get in those too?

If the school handles admissions it’s probably a faith school and faith gets in above distance. I think you have to use taxis to get her to school. You cannot just say you can’t get her to school for weeks and weeks. You also might find the school will pair you up with helpful parents. Surely you are not the only one from this area going to the school?

Hi, yes it is a faith school. It’s Roman Catholic and we’re in the Churches Together category. I think what’s frustrated me most is, the school Head and Administrator have been actively helping families they “know well” to have children baptised in this parish even when they’ve had no previous intention to. It’s like they’ve hand-picked the class this year. That’s a separate issue of course, but still very frustrating. One of the parents has even offered to write a statement for my appeal, although I doubt it would make any difference because I can’t prove a breach of the admissions code really and I doubt they’d say the same to the panel that they said to me on the phone either.

We really are the only people in this area going to that school. I don’t know anybody else who has children there not even in higher years.

i won’t be able to use taxis either. The surgery I have leaves open wounds in the perianal region, I generally can’t sit for weeks. Sometimes 2 sometimes 6, depends on the luck of the draw. i spoke to the school and they’ve been really helpful for times like now when I can drive, and they’ll allow us to use the before and after school clubs for free so I can drop and collect at quieter times. It’s around surgery or if I need to go into hospital. I also hate the idea of not being able to drive and her being at a school so far away that if something happened I couldn’t get there. It’s over a hour walk there and the same back. I would not/could not send a 4-5 yr old to school on her own in a taxi. I wouldn’t in ordinary circumstances let alone with a prohibited steps order. I really could have done without this hassle this year.

Thank you! I appreciate that, it really is exhausting. It’s all I’ve worried about for 2 weeks.
The child across the road got in because the school hounded his mother for months to have him baptised (although she didn’t want to) and told her they wouldn’t offer a place if he didn’t. She managed to find a Polish priest 15 miles away who was willing to do it. He moved from category 11 to category 3 overnight!

we didn’t get the next closest school either. The other options were all further away than the third. They’re better schools and if this had been fire I got this illness I may even have preferred them if I felt they could keep her safe because I’d know I could get there if I needed to. But now… I just can’t see this working any other way.

i just know that notoriously, these are the hardest appeals to win.

@Cheeky666
You could ask for transport if it’s over 2 miles or an unsafe walking route. You don’t go with your child. It’s a collection service. You might have to pay but I would start asking. Many DC in my village went by taxi to allocated school due to unsafe walking route. You need to ask.,

Church schools can be Voluntary Aided which does mean the governors decide. They must administer the admissions policy fairly. Was your DC baptised? Sadly you have to play this stupid game. Church goers will be told what to do and if the nursery is at the school, it will be clear to everyone what is expected. I don’t like these Aided schools as the church isn’t inclusive. They are clearly exclusive.

I’m not sure your health needs are grounds for appeal, but I could be mistaken. It does sound like you’re talking about hypothetical situations though, and I’d be concerned that you’re saying you wouldn’t be able to get your dd to a school 2 miles away several times a year because you have no support network. Who would be looking after your child when you’re in hospital or incapacitated? Surely whatever arrangements you’d make for that time would include her being taken to school?

I don’t think my health needs are grounds on their own. I need to prove that any reasonable authority wouldn’t have made the same decision or that the admissions process hasn’t been followed correctly. That’s my understanding.

I have evidence that these are not hypothetical reasons. She’s at the pre-school in that school and it’s happened 4 times since September where another parent has had to have her overnight to get her to school whilst I’m in surgery, or when I’m home she picks my DD up and walks her with her son. It’s a disease that can only be dealt with by surgeries. I have many more yet.

i think it’s a really idealistic view to think that whatever arrangements I make will include school. I have two options, she says with my neighbour and my neighbour takes her to school with her son before dropping her eldest at the high school, or she stays with my sister for a week and she lives 100miles away. I don’t know how else to say, “I don’t have a support network” in any other way than, I genuinely do not have any other friends or family close to me who can help. If I did, I wouldn’t waste my precious energy fighting this, I’d accept it and move on. I like the Head at the new school so much more but even he can’t see how I can make this work.

Absolutely agree. I wish it wasn’t a church school and it was done based on distance, least I’d know she’d get a place there.

she is baptised, but in our church which is in the category for churches together on the criteria. It’s the only VA school in this area that categorises social and welfare below baptised children. Even all the other faith schools have it as the second category after looked after children.

I hate to be Mrs negative but its really hard to win appeals with faith schools. My eldest didn't get into one despite being baptised having sen and living in catchment. Like you say the head hand picked the families she liked and openly told me she was racist. I'm glad my eldest dc didn't get in after she said that and after they deliberately excluded her from events but thats another story.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I chose not to appeal because I was told how hard it is to win and its just so upsetting and exhausting.
If it was me I'd forget the appeal and focus your efforts on finding practical solutions to your problems. For example, finding a childminder, transport, applying for disability benefits to pay for taxis, building a support network perhaps through a support group for your illness, contact carers services etc

Thank you so much. I completely understand why you didn’t continue it and that’s appalling that she said she was racist. You should have reported her. I feel a little like they won’t want her in the school now anyway after what I’ve said in the appeal about their appeals practices. She’ll definitely be low down on their list.

Some of this is great advice. The taxi situ is still an issue. I have fistulas so when I’ve had surgery I can’t sit at all, not even when someone else drives. Some of the other advice might help though. I work full time from home so I think I’m limited on what I can apply for, and money isn’t necessarily the issue in all honesty.

I'm very careful about who I trust with my daughter, especially because of the safety risks. We don’t qualify for transport through the council because the school is within 3 miles, so all I can hope for is not to need any surgery during term time or that I meet someone at the school who I feel I can trust who won’t mind collecting her for a couple of weeks.

i know it’s unlikely to win though. I think I was just hoping someone on here would have a success story that might give me a bit of hope. Thank you for your advice!

I thought for infant it was 2 miles. What about unsafe walking route? Does it have pavements all the way? Narrow lanes? You need to speak to the transport officers. As I said, you don’t go with DC. They will be safe door to door. At this rate you won’t get her to school - but you must.,

Thanks, I’ll call the transport section on Tuesday. I wonder why this information doesn’t come with your offer when they know they’re giving you a school out of your area? It would be much more helpful.

Luckily I used to be a teacher, so if there were times she couldn’t go, and the school would happily give us work I could do it with her because I’m off work following the procedures (desk jobs and fistulas are not compatible). It’s just permanent home schooling that is not going to work for us, or her, she needs to be in a school really. I want her to have as normal a childhood as possible.

I think you are being far too negative about support networks. She must have cars if you are not well snd in hospital. I still don’t think you will win an appeal so do start asking for help.

Did you apply to your nearest non faith school too, or is that the one that's 2.5 miles away?

As others have said, your own health concerns are not relevant as it will be assumed you have a back up network. Do you still have a health visitor involved? Maybe contact them for some advice.

Whilst others have stated the definition of what might be considered perverse I am not sure that people have recognised the basis of something being perverse. In terms of school admission it is whether or not the decision to not offer a place at the school is completely wrong when you are considering the admission criteria of the school.
As soon as the admission authorities (in this case the school) decide not to allow you to be considered under the medical / social criteria then the allocation of a place at another school was perfectly reasonable against the admission criteria.
The only part of the admission arrangements that could be considered to be perverse is the fact that your application was not considered under the medical / social criteria. You have indicated that you submitted information to the school but was this about your medical issues or was it about the prohibited steps order? If is was the former I would say that in my experience this would not be considered good enough grounds but I do think that the prohibited steps order is something that the school should have considered seriously.
So the questions then become. Did the school actually consider the evidence about the order? If they did consider it, did they decide it was not appropriate. Did the school inform you in writing that they had considered your application and decided not to consider under the criteria? If not then you need to be asking for evidence that they did actually consider the situation not just rely on their word they considered it.
The other thing that you need to check is that the social/medical criteria is actually a formal part of the admission criteria. Often it gets mentioned but is not actually part of the official admission criteria.
Having said all that I would agree with others that your focus needs to be on how you get your child to school allocated everyday as the chances of succeeding at appeal is low. Sorry.

Hi there, I’m not sure if we still have a Health Visitor. The last time we heard from them it was the two year check. I could call the department though and see what they say.

This is really helpful! Thank you!
She is at the pre-school so I submitted evidence directly to them and to pupil access and it included the prohibited steps order. My medical issue started in August but the longevity of it was only diagnosed in November/December so I sent that information in before the deadline.

I will ask about whether the considered it and whether they have proof that it was considered.

It is on the criteria, but it’s very low down so perhaps that’s why. Where other admission authorities have it at 1(b) or 2, they have it somewhere closer to 7, after the faith criteria. The policy doesn’t actually mention what it is considered to be, how or by whom it is determined etc which I understand from the Admissions Code should be documented somewhere.

I will continue to work with the allocated school, and of course I’ll accept the place and ensure she goes to all of the settling in days etc if they are before the appeal. I just wanted advice on how to make sure my appeal is strong really. I have a letter from my Counsellor, the MP, the prohibited steps, my medical evidence (more to explain wider circumstances than anything)… I know it’s a long shot, I knew when I decided to appeal, but for me, it’s worth the effort in case by any small miracle it’s successful. If not, then we’ll have to manage somehow even if I have to give up work or go part-time and opt for home schooling in the long run. One way or another she’s going to need education.

Ok if it's criteria 7, what criteria did they admit to? Your problem is that they could very well say they did agree the social and medical that you supplied and thus put you in that category - but if they only admitted up to cat 5 that is no help to you.

I’m not too sure. They haven’t disclosed that to me. Hopefully that will be information available as part of the appeal.