Have I done my poor kid a grave disservice in sending him to an independent school?

[Firstgenuni]

I was the first (and only) generation of our family to go to university - as was dh. My parents scrimped and remortgaged to send me to a v middling independent (on a scholarship), and I got a place at Oxford. Dh went state until sixth form, and also got to Oxford, where we met, yadda yadda. My parents (mum is an immigrant, dad left school at 15) always said that there won’t be any inheritance (and there really won’t be!), but my education was their investment in my future.

I did take this to heart, and ds (Year 12) has been in the local independent since reception, for other reasons too (a huge teacher discount of 66% for junior and senior schools being the main one, and load of extracurricular stuff handily on site <given we both work full time> being the other main reason.)
Uni admissions didn’t figure in decisions we made way back. His fair-sized school gets about 15 kids into Oxbridge a year, so good, but no St Paul’s, etc (about 80 apply, I think)

Ds now has his heart set on natural sciences on Cambridge. I know nothing about it - both dh and I did humanities subjects. But we tell him to use the internet to search up natural science taster sessions and essay competitions and online courses, and see what interesting things he can find.
He’s now finding that there just aren’t many things available.

Pembroke college, for instance, that he loves the sound of, is running a taster event for natural sciences - online, but ‘due to capacity restrictions, successful applicants must be attending a UK state school.’ It’s online, ffs!

Newnham college (yes I know he can’t go there ) runs all their essays for UK state schools only now, despite a friend of ds’s at a neighbouring independent winning one of their prizes just last year. Is this the way things are going?

I’ve chatted to his head of sixth, and they are very much offering advice like yes, we are encouraging applications to the Ivy League now too, and look at this great summer course by invest costing over £400. . Meanwhile, his cousin enjoyed a totally free materials science course run in the hols by a major independent as part of their ‘outreach to state schools’ - but is at a very well-respected grammar, with a good sized Oxbridge cohort anyway!

We don’t have £400 for fancy courses. We don’t have lots of connections like a lot of wealthier parents seem to. I feel extremely sad that I have, inadvertently, made it so much more difficult for ds to achieve his ambition.

Obviously he is reading science books out of the school library and pursuing the topics that he is interested in, and he’s watching videos and listening to podcasts, but what can he do to impress that doesn’t cost money, but isn’t restricted to state school students?

And I know I’ll get a load of flack for complaining, but it really feels as though things are being made extra difficult for ds for being the ‘poor relation’ in an independent- and it’s my fault. [eyeroll]

I have 2 colleagues starting uni for the same subject this year. On paper they look very similar wrt grades, work experience (current job in related field etc) the one who went to a mediocre state school has had offers from all that she applied to including the one in our city which is highly competitive. The one who went to private didn't even get an interview at the more popular ones (which would have been her preference as would have liked to stay at home). Like your son they attended due to a parent working there, not because they are wealthy and well connected so it grates that bit more for her. Definitely a thing.

even if your DS finds the gates of Cambridge closed against him he will still benefit throughout life from your investment in an excellent education. Please don’t imagine you have done him a disservice.

this is so true.

@liveforsummer maybe they didn’t come across at all well in their personal statements.

I know sever

I know several state educated northern students who have in recent years had awful Oxbridge experiences. One transferred to another university and the others stuck it out but came out a bit bruised.
They were made to feel inferior because of their accents and background by other students. Please, teach your children that northern kids are just as bright as your own, especially if they get into Oxbridge. It’s ridiculous that in 2022 there are still such horrible prejudiced people who are so insecure and stupid they want to destroy other people’s confidence.

That said my friend (we from in south west) didn’t have an easy time at all at Manchester - North / South thing cuts both ways I’m afraid.

@liveforsummer this is just contextualisation of achievements. Clearly if the DC achieved the same high grades as the other in a much more mediocre context, then that means they outperformed the other candidate. They are not the same as one is performing within their context and the other beyond their context.

Not even remotely to the same extent tswift and it definitely is at its most insidious at the top universities, working against northern kids.

I fear it's as much a class thing as a north-south divide. DD doesn't sound northern English, or indeed SE English, but her Oxford friends are those with shared interests rather than the people at her college or from her course. Most other students seem rather posh to her. That doesn't necessarily mean they come from independent schools, but I guess they exude a certain middle class social confidence, and dare I say affluence, that she doesn't possess.

Absolutely Dh face never fitted with the elite public school set either - though he has lovely friends from his Cambridge days. Left him with a violent dislike of Eddie Redmayne who encapsulates exactly what the Cambridge elite were like apparently!

OP,

I am still reading the full thread. Writing as a former STEM admissions tutor in a School just beliw Oxbridge/Warwick/Imperial, I paused after p3. The reason is that I want to highlight that you have a string of good advice there from @BoffinMum, @Ironoaks and @hampsteadmum. It should go a long way.

I would also emphasise the importance of being well prepared for the relevant C entrance exam(s).

Good luck to your DS. Please help him remember that there is a huge element of randomness in Oxbridge admissions. If his goal is to become a scientist, he should not be discouraged if C does not work out. There are several very fine unis where he can do that.

I also think the list of suggestions from @Longcovid21 is good. I would only caution that any knowledge a UG science applicant gains about the research interests of academic staff should be deployed carefully.

It can be useful to know the research themes of the School as a whole, and it is obviously a great thing if your DS has any knowledge-based enthusiasm for these. But trying to swot up for the interview will likely lead to superficial knowledge ending in embarrassment. Much better to stick with what he knows

How would you know to what extent this is prevalent in different universities / regions?

I would take these stories you hear with a pinch of salt. University, especially Oxbridge, is immensely hard work to keep up with. It's human nature to seek to blame others when we fail at something.

He might get in. He might not. State or private or whatever that would still be the case. The best thing you can do is to make sure he knows that Oxbridge isn't the be all and end all. Take him to visit other universities. Tell him what a nightmare the oxbridge study load is. Don't obsess over some perceived discrimination which, as PP point out, is just there to level the playing field.

Yet I went to one of the oldest and richest colleges in Cambridge and I can’t think of a single fellow student I met there who had been to boarding school. I met a lot who had gone to state grammars and independent day schools. I went to a state comp and felt absolutely fine in their company, didn’t really spend much time comparing or thinking about our backgrounds to be honest.

Also @NOTANUM , what’s so hard to understand about a “staircase”? Yes it’s a term specific to Oxbridge colleges but it’s just a word for the way the rooms are laid out in a building, presumably you’ve visited/dropped her off and seen it?
Do you have the same difficulty understanding terms like “dorm” (US) or “halls” (most universities) or “refectory” (many universities) or just learning new words generally? Why are you falling over yourself to make it all sound so elitist and impenetrable?

I agree, I thought this was strange, too.

Because one else lives on a staircase and it’s very hard to get into Oxbridge that would make it an elitist term surely?
Why don’t they just call them Halls…. there’s your answer.

Because they aren’t halls. “Halls of residence” are largish accommodation block, 3+ floors, maybe 20+ rooms per floor, linked by corridors.A staircase has a handful of rooms - 6-8, maybe - off a staircase. It’s a different thing.

It’s not like staircase is an obscure word that only privileged people whose parents went to Oxbridge would know the meaning of (like sub fusc or bumps). Anyone hearing the expression in context could have a pretty good guess that it means a corridor with stairs in it. The whole college is the equivalent of “Halls” @lightisnotwhite (ie the place where all the students live) but it already has a name-college- and the dining hall is usually just called Hall so would be a bit confusing to call the accommodation “halls” too.

I havent read the full thread (will do tomorrow when not feeling quite as tired) but I understand where the OP is coming from. DD2 is on a full bursary at a lovely independent school, with us probably being the poorest family there - I am a full time carer on benefits to disabled DD1. DD2 would be on free school meals if at a state school.

Whilst the additional benefits DD2 gains from being at her school are great, I do worry about university and that she will miss out on the widening access provisions that are granted to state school applicants.

I don't really understand this thread. If you are so worried about being disadvantaged by the private school system, why not send them to state school? It's not as if there is a barrier to entry to state school. Every child is entitled to a place.

Sorry my message wasn't directed at you @ChesneyHawkesLoveChild . I'm sorry for your struggles.

It's just this idea that the 7% of children that attend private school are at a 'grave' disadvantage, as it there is no other choice.

I admit that I could have turned down the bursary abd sent DD to a state school, although in our town they’re not great. But, my reasons for accepting consisted of mainly wanting DD2 to escape the desperate poverty that I am in and be offered the choice of much better life opportunities. I spent my childhood in local authority care, escaped two abusive relationships which have left me so scared of men that I’ve been single for 15 years.

The headmaster who offered the bursary said that he offered a full bursary (had only been 1 other full award in the schools history) because DD was so bright yet due to her family circumstances (that aren’t ever going to change - DD1 will always be disabled and need full time care) she just needed a hand to get to where she could realise her potential.

i don’t mind if she doesn’t go to Oxbridge. I actually don’t mind really if she chooses a different route other than uni. But, I do want her to have options, which is what her independent school is affording her. I was just saying that I understand where the OP was coming from, as DD is seeing her friends participating in events that she would also really benefit from, but can’t as she’s not at state school.

apologies for so much waffle!

@ChesneyHawkesLoveChild I totally understand your decision for your DD. I'm sorry you have had such a tough time in life and I wish you happiness in the future.

What the contextual Oxbridge offers and events are trying to do is give another disadvantaged child who went through the state school system a hand up to realise their potential.

So, this is coming from a good place.