Eton Common Entrance prep

[Dingbat01]

My son is current year 6 and has a conditional place at Eton for 2024.

His current prep school ends at year 6 but we do not have any CE prep schools locally and don't want him to board for year 7 and 8 to a traditional CE prep.

Therefore, we plan on sending him to a selective independent 11-18 school (top 20 nationally in Times parent power table)

Has anyone any guidance on how to prepare for core CE (maths/English/Science/French).

Is the CE much different to KS3 and would 12-18m be enough preparation time?

I know a CE prep would be a simpler route but we think he would benefit from being at home for the next 2 years - maintain his friendships/sports /family life.

You should ask Eton for advice. ks3 is a very different curriculum but not even all year 8 preps take CE now so there may be an alternative entry route.

He can sit Eton’s own entrance exam when he is 12. You don’t have to have CE for Eton. He will need strong Maths, Science and English. I wouldn’t worry so much about French and Latin etc.

If you are still interested in CE or curious about their syllabus the exam board is ISEB, they have a website with the course books and past papers. My children sat CE and used the ISEB maths book at home (in addition to their normal prep school work). There is a higher maths paper at CE so your DS should work on this. We found it a good book. But as I say Eton have their own exams.

Best of luck.

Thank you for the replies. I have checked the ISEB syllabus but the reality is that I don't know which topics my son will cover and to what depth at his secondary school by year 8.

Good suggestion to buy the ISEB textbooks and work through them alongside his school work which I will undoubtedly need to coerce him to do!

I did call admissions at Eton and the Eton entrance exams are only for those pupils at a maintained school. The admissions tutor said my son would need to sit the core CE papers if he went to a non CE independent school. I did try and plead that the Eton entrance would perhaps be less stressful for him but she wouldn't budge!

@Dingbat01 - Eton College is being unreasonable. Surely they have plenty of boys now in your DS’ position? Bright all rounder kids from London based high earning parents, they are shooting themselves in the foot by adopting this stance. Even Westminster Under has scrapped CE!

@Abuildingwith4wallsandtmrinsid yes, I'd have thought this occurs fairly frequently now they aren't just taking boys from the traditional boarding prep schools in the SE.

Okay … Forgive me but - this was poor planning on your part!

The whole ‘getting into Eton’ process takes a million years - why on earth would you begin the process, and get your son to the conditional place stage, in the full knowledge that you were about to make his life very difficult indeed. (In terms of public school entrance, at least.)

(I gather the exam timetable has evolved a little since I needed to know about it in any detail, but they do always make the various routes very clear. I was a bit confused by Foilist’s post - because I must have read the independent / maintained schools entrance guidance about a thousand times in the past.)

Why are you choosing to stymie your son’s otherwise perfectly orderly progress to year 9? You knowingly had him sit the pre-test from a prep school that couldn’t carry him forward to CE?

It’s true that there ought to be an established exam route for boys attending neither a CE teaching prep nor a state school. (Have entirely forgotten what sort of exam non-UK based entrants take in yr 8.) But until there is, it’s really up to parents to choose one of the routes available, rather than going off-piste.

@CountryCousin - she isn’t going “off piste”. Schools like this are in a transition period trying to work out how to assess boys between 11-13. They all want naturally bright boys whose parents are supportive and can pay. Westminster will now give 13 plus entry in Year 6 without further exams. So why can’t Eton do the same, subject to good school reports.
Common Entrance was only ever meant to be a formality of good progress. If OP’s son is at a good school and gets good school reports that should be enough. He will have already sat ISEB and been grilled at Interview and done the list test.

Train him to lie, cheat and steal like most well known Eton alumni??

But most of their alumni are not well known …

@CountryCousin with respect, we didn't plan for Eton a million years ago. We sent our son to his current school and saw him develop into an academic and sporty all rounder so decided to give the pretests/List test/interview a go which ultimately led to a conditional offer

We didn't consider Eton when he was 2.5 years old at the started his school journey as we don't come from a family who has traditionally boarded and don't live in a geographic area with lots of CE prep schools.

To be honest, given that all children sit the same GCSEs, I can't believe there is that much difference between CE (ISEB have released a new curriculum recently which is less content heavy) and KS3. As a current year 6, my son could do a maths GCSE foundation paper now without much issue.

I'm definitely not trying to stymie his chances but surely passing one set of exams doesn't necessarily have to mean moving out of home at 11, giving up your friends/sports for 2 years to then move again at 13?

Just trying to navigate an 'off piste' route which others must have embarked on.

Worst case is that he will have to self learn the CE maths and science curriculum and we will tutor for French and possibly English.

Other option is that we send him to a maintained school for 2 years and he sits the Eton entrance tests instead - these are based on National curriculum.

Oh, should have said I was only speaking of the period from 10 years old onwards, from the point where you would have had to register. Loads of boys who apply don’t come from ‘traditional’ boarding families (and I’ve seen more than a few sons of alumni not get in). But at the time you entered him for the pre-test you also knew he couldn’t take CE at his prep.

I can’t really see the point of moving a child to a top twenty independent day school, when you’ll be concentrating on an exam they don’t prepare for. It seems stressful and unnecessary. In this instance moving him to a state school to take the established state school entrance seems more … organised. Though not ideal.

But as I said, they set out the options really clearly. It seems pointless to argue at this stage that it’s inconvenient or outdated - even if your arguments are perfectly valid. (I can’t immediately think of any obvious reasons why they might not want to change the status quo - although I do seem to recall some vague mutterings from staff about there being no need for a boy already at a good independent senior school to move …).

But it’s late - so I’ve probably forgotten something important.

If you have a talented son and apply to eg Eton, Westminster, St Paul’s and some superselective grammars then you don’t know until March where they may have gotten in. You can’t rely on getting into Eton. If Eton actually wants the best and most academic who also have extra curricular talents and are really nice boys that is what they are now competing with. Westminster Under doesn’t like 11 plus joiners who leave at 13 nor does St Paul’s…. But it would still be better for those schools if Eton guaranteed entry in Year 6 subject to school reports as then the parents could give those schools plenty of notice for Year 9 entrants off the waiting list. At the moment it is some sort of limbo with lots of talented London boys scrambling around and some will decide against Eton once settled so Eton will maybe also lose out in the competition. Which means it is no longer about the “best boys” but the 13 plus prep schools keep their monopolies somewhat. These types of parents are not going to send their kids to a standard state school for 2 years are they

OP forgot to say did you consider Kings Scholarship route?
“For those boys who hold a conditional place but do not achieve a place in College, a satisfactory performance in the King’s Scholarship examinations guarantees entry to Eton.”
The papers are all on the website and for a bright child who has been to a top London day school it might be a more interesting approach, more lateral thinking than swotting a content based syllabus.

I’m wondering if that’s what non-UK based applicants do.

All the boys I know of who took KS as their (confirmatory) entrance exam did so from the scholarship set in a school where everyone else in the year was taking CE. (And if a KS candidate didn’t reach a satisfactory standard in any individual subject they were required to pass the CE exam in that subject.)

Hi May I know when did ur son sit for his eton list test?

Incidentally, does it not bother you at all that you'd be screwing over the 11-18 secondary day school by taking a place that you know you're only going to be keeping for 2 years (and presumably lying to them - and getting your son to lie to them - in the process, as they're never going to give you a place if they know you're off to Eton in year 9)?

@putitonaplate - lots of London day schools have a 13 plus intake plus in any event, there is lots of movement in London. People moving in from abroad etc. We have had kids leave grammar schools to join independents at 13 plus too. It happens.
At worst, the day school runs a one off admission for 13 plus which will probably be vastly oversubscribed for the 1 place anyway. If it is a top 20 school it isn’t an issue. The OP needs to do what is right for her son. Would you blame someone for intending to move out of a state school in the near future etc? No, you would not. People move and things change. The child might change his mind anyway.

Yes, moves happen, but it's different to actually be planning it already, I think. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt that an oversubscribed school would take a pupil for two years if they already knew they'd be going to another independent boarding school at 13 - it's still an investment of time to induct a pupil into a school, even if youre confident you can replace them at 13. If the OP's open about the Eton place with the day school from the start, then of course fair enough. Incidentally, our local 13+ indie refuses to take pupils if they've enrolled at a local state school first, partly because they want to do the right thing by the state schools. In a bursary situation, they fund 2 years at a local prep instead, to bridge the gap from primary.

This and also educate him up on hating the disabled and working class. He’ll be fine then.

“Incidentally, our local 13+ indie refuses to take pupils if they've enrolled at a local state school first, partly because they want to do the right thing by the state schools”.
And this is exactly why my own kids go to the state grammars and not independents… why does an independent school put another school above the interests and choices of the child and their parents! So so wrong on so many levels.
I have been through the independent school process with my nephews though because my brother lives and works abroad.
Nice to see the usual predictable Eton haters on here.
OP - Eton is a fabulous school, if you can afford it and your DS will thrive there (aka naturally talented with strong confidence & ambition), go for it!

It's an interesting perspective. I imagine that if our local indie encouraged pupils to take up places at the local state secondaries and grammars for two years before creaming them off at 13, they'd get roundly criticised for that.

Sure, parents need to do what's right for their kids, but that doesn't preclude a bit of honesty and non-self-interest as well. Just as I would criticise someone who holds a state place until 1st September even though they're going private - it's no doubt better for the family to retain both those options until the last minute in case something goes wrong, but it's still morally the wrong thing to do (I would argue). In the OP's situation, my personal opinion would be - go to a day school and tell them you're only staying for 2 years - that's one thing. Knowingly take a place that another 11 year old desperately wants but you already know you're going to give up after 2 years, without telling the school - a bit selfish.

@putitonaplate - “just as I would criticise someone who holds a state place until 1st September even though they're going private” - I agree, that should be illegal/attract a fine if the intention is to definitely go private. In any event, most people have paid hefty deposits and are liable for first term fees so are financially committed and should not be holding onto a state school place with that intention. However, there are some doing it because they are still holding out for a particular grammar school waiting list place/other state school waiting list place - so that is a more nuanced position. They feel if they give up their normal state school place the local authority might bump them off the waiting lists for the grammars/other school on waiting list etc. I have heard people have these types of discussions before - don’t let go of your state school place for that reason.
As these are essentially “moral” questions people can do as they see fit and it is not for private schools to judge people’s morals really. Private schools set their own terms and conditions which tend to be very one sided in any event and it is for them to legislate to protect themselves.

I do not think the OP is being selfish. Her duty is towards her own child. The independent schools protect themselves with one sided contracts in their favours and are known to keep deposits and demand payment of a whole term of fees, even if they fill the places. She needs to do what is right for her child and if she tells the school, then yes, they might not give her son a place/revoke it which he won fair and square. And if their admissions included a subtle “intention to stay” then I would argue that does not really constitute fair admissions in the first place (another of my bugbears with independent schooling, lack of accountability in admissions).
Some independent schools also have this notion that they own the clever children they have offered a place to and if they cannot fill the vacancy with an equally able child who achieves high results = better marketing, they have lost out and so can keep deposits etc. Clearly, I would not agree with that concept one bit.
If grammar schools thought like this they would not take the able children on the waiting lists which would otherwise remain in the comprehensives and raise the standards. The legal process is there for a reason. As long as the OP follows the letter of the law and her contract, everything is fine.
We know people in our grammars who got offers during the first year/first term etc and switched from independents too and would have had to pay hefty termly “notice” fees but took the view that was cheaper than years of independent schooling. So there is that too - and they would have started at an independent school with that intention. They are doing it for financial reasons - are they immoral too?

What I am saying is that as a parent always do what is best for you and your DC, of course if you have other kids at the same independent school, that would be another dilemma… so OP should consider that, being blacklisted by said top 20 school.

Well argued, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think it is wrong to dissemble for a school place, whatever you think of the terms and conditions of the school you're applying to. The OP might not have to, of course - it depends on the T&Cs. But nobody's holding a gun to his/her head - if she/he doesn't approve of the ethics/T&Cs of the school, then she/he should choose another school. Saying 'well they're unethical so I will be too' is a pretty morally bankrupt position. And don't forget that there's a child involved here - the whole 'don't tell anyone you're going to Eton' charade is morally very similar to the 'don't tell anyone you were in Spain, just say you were off sick' line. (Apologies to the OP if this is not what she/he is actually intending!).

Any advice on eton houses please

@Dingbat01 We are in the same situation as yours and I'm wondering what decision you came to last year and what the outcomes are?

Our DS also holds an offer at our local 3-18 Ind sch however we aren't sure whether to send him there this Sep or send him to a boarding Prep. We did declare all the schools we applied to and our son was still offered a place with some scholarship so I don't think telling the schools about other schools you are considering will deter them from offering a place to a child who deserves it. After all they are all competing for spaces and they hope that you will choose them over another.

I also know that oversubscribed Independents do make more offers than space available or have a competitive waiting list. We lost the space at another school by missing acceptance date and time by a few hours hence why we have paid for the other school. Our preference is still Eton/Harrow but we just don't know if not going to a Prep sch will affect his chances.