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year 7, what do they do? rant!!!!

71 replies

Starmummy · 09/01/2008 11:50

Ds has had two lots of homework this week.
Neither is art, so why I ask myself is he required to draw for both history and English. wtf????? I am surprised that he isnt drawing in maths, at least I could see the point with graphs etc.
The history homework is a pictorial representation of hevan and hell in the Middle Ages. Great, I can see the point but I dont want Ds to be marked for his drawing but it isnt a subject he is very good at or enjoys. English, they are reading a novel Skelly (?) and they have to draw a garge and label items in it. Again I see the point, but crikey my ds is a boy and needs practice at hand writing, essay construction etc. Since he has been in year 7 he has yet to in any subject write more than one page. grrrr.
Is it just this school or is the national curriculum????
Late call!!! They are drawing in maths!!! They have to draw a "brick" pyramid and fill it with numbers - something to do with algebra. I think I get the gist of it (although I havent explained it very well) but I am still really miffed about the other stuff.

OP posts:
WezzleWoo · 18/01/2008 10:52

I think Umlellala's point is much more applicable to primary education and was always a bug bear of mine.

DD got far more homework there than she has done at secondary school - even in the infants - it's ridiculous IMO

slayerette · 18/01/2008 17:18

What you call dumbing down, fembear, we call teaching students how to identify the key/central/essential themes/concerns/concepts that a text is addressing. By the time they get to GCSE with the exam board our students sit, they have to be able to read one or more non-fiction/media texts, identify the key arguments the writer is presenting and explain them in their own words. We try to ease them into it more gently than that when they're eleven. And please feel some sympathy for those students who LOATHE English because they're no good at it yet are forced to study it until they're sixteen and desperately appreciate ways of demonstrating their understanding of a text that doesn't require them to write extended essays.

Blandmum · 18/01/2008 17:26

and as far as I'm concerned in science, students learning about a process can show me that they understand the stages and the interrelationship between them by drawing me a flow chart.

It really isn't dumbing down.

And mind maps are a fantastic way of revising, and assessing a student's understanding of a topic.

And some highly abstract, high level concepts, such as the manufacture of protein from DNA via RNA at A level Biology can almost only be explained by drawing the stages.

And when all this is happening, I'm assessing their science, not their artistic ability.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 18/01/2008 17:37

Fembear - I agree, and am horrified all this drawing is still going on - outside art lessons - in Year 7. My DS1 is in Year 5 of a 'top performing'state school and very interested in maths, and enjoys it. The maths homework in December Xmas was to make a silver star to put on a Christmas tree... That was the final clincher to convince us to move him to an independent school.

Blandmum · 18/01/2008 17:41

this is an example of the sort of thing I am talking about

and given that I didn't do this until I went to university, I don't think geting the kids to draw the stahes in the sixth form could be thought of as 'dumbing down'

slayerette · 18/01/2008 17:48

Hope it wasn't the independent school I teach at, MrsGofG because clearly, I'd be a big disappointment...

spangle1 · 18/01/2008 18:03

My son did the Skellig homework last week and got a lot out of it. He is a child who struggles with writing but has a much higher level of comprehension, so he really enjoyed being able to communicate his true level of understanding for a change. Some children learn better visually, rather than literally. I think it is important to use a variety of learning techniques to allow all children to develop their potential. I've never seen him so enthusiastic about English homework!

Blandmum · 18/01/2008 18:05

Slayerette, fwiw my two go to a fantastic independent school and they use a lot of poster work. I approve.

slayerette · 18/01/2008 18:24

Thank you mb!

Spangle, yours is exactly the kind of child I was talking about. I have a number of students who clearly understand so much about the texts we read but either struggle to develop their ideas in written form or feel it's not worth their while trying because their spelling/punctuation/grammar isn't as strong as they'd like. I love seeing them 'relax' into the drama/oral/art-based work we do.

Blandmum · 18/01/2008 18:26

Oh and I use role play to explain all sorts of things, like the difference between current and voltage.

And gas pressure.

And states of matter.

And saltatory conduction in the neurone.

slayerette · 18/01/2008 18:32

I wish you had been my science teacher...

ScienceTeacher · 18/01/2008 18:39

Poster work should generally be quite prescriptive, ie the task should have lots of criteria that the poster needs to address. It is not a purely artistic task.

I always have my KS3 classes do a 'title page' for the start of each new topic. I tell them that it has to have science in it - it can't just be a page of bubble writing. They need to think about what they know about the topic, and put it down on paper. If they can't draw, then a few words (usually in colour and at a jaunty angle ) is great! What is important to me is that I can see where they are at the start of the topic - and for us all to see how they have progressed by the end of it.

I usually mark them by giving house points rather than actual grades, which is easy for me, and really motivates the pupils.

When I ask them to do poster work, it is very often a labelled diagram of some kind. Labels are very important. One of my favourite poster tasks is about how animals adapt to their environment (eg polar bears being white), and I ask them to create their own imaginary animal or plant with as many adaptations as possible. When the children are creative and get the science right, I know they understand.

I'm not an English teacher, but I know that illustrating a story is a very powerful indicator of understanding and appreciation. As a Sunday School teacher, I occasionally have the children illustrate a bible passage, and am usually very impressed by their level of understanding - better than adults sometimes.

The key thing is that you have to address the learning needs of all your pupils. You can't just suit yourself and teach to your own learning style. You need to vary the styles in line with the proportion of children with each style in each of your classes.

spangle1 · 18/01/2008 18:41

He has also done lots of visual homework (posters and title pages etc.) in Science and managed to do very well in his SATs last year - we have middle schools here, so he has been at his school since Year 5.

I think so much is communicated visually these days through power point etc that visual/oral communication can be as important as the written word in the real world of work.

It is really encouraging to see so many teachers who understand that not all children fit into one box - shame the National Curriculum doesn't always back them up!

Lucycat · 18/01/2008 18:43

It's also very difficult for them to c&p an annotated poster from the internet.

ScienceTeacher · 18/01/2008 18:43

Role play is fab - the only way to teach anything to do with particles.

I use lots of acting techniques in KS4 now, with the HSW slant. "Freeze frame" is one of my favourites, and it keeps the girls on their toes!

ScienceTeacher · 18/01/2008 18:46

That's a crucial point, Spangle, that today's communication is often very visual. It is vital that we do not put our own learning history on today's children. They are not us. They have so many more opportunities that we ever did, and we have to compete for attention.

Umlellala · 18/01/2008 21:46

Oh yes, a good teacher will use a variety of methods to teach and assess. Your lessons sound great ScienceTeacher!

I have no problem with good thoughtfully planned homework that extends or assesses work in class, poster or not. But I do think that sometimes teachers are told to always give homework when nothing really is necessary - and the time would be better spent doing general literacy/numeracy at home.

Dh (Technology) has introduced an optional booklet that students work through at their own pace. They are rewarded if they complete the projects - but it is to extend work in class.

Umlellala · 18/01/2008 21:48

PS am Secondary. Am opposed to homework-for-sake-of-it in both - Primary homework is ridiculous though

ScienceTeacher · 18/01/2008 22:05

Our school policy is to give homework once a week per subject. It's 30 minutes in KS3, and 45 minutes + in KS4.

Our deputy head has a bee in her bonnet about homework right now, so it's easier just to comply with the homework timetable. I just plan homework into my lessons, and it's not too hard to think something up when there isn't a natural homework. Our girls all have textbooks, which I don't tend to use in lessons. This means that there is always work from the textbook (read and answer questions) if I can't think up anything that is more imaginative. If I opt for this, it tends to be a repeat of the classwork rather than an extention of it, so I never feel good about it.

fizzbuzz · 18/01/2008 22:22

I'm an Art teacher. These poster homeworks send me and entire dept into orbit. Felt pen and bubble writing....... drawing on lined paper......yuk Gross.

In fact both DT dept and Art dept at my school have been to see SMT to discuss this.
My ds had an re homework every week to do a poster in RE. I got really peed off with it.

slayerette · 19/01/2008 09:23

Oh, I know what you mean, fizzbuzz. As an English teacher, I get so angry when students use speaking, reading and writing in other subjects. What are those other teachers thinking of, to trespass on my territory like that? When I see that they have written words in their history and RS books it makes my blood boil, I can tell you. And I know the Maths teachers feel the same about numeracy. Imagine the outrage: students are expected to take skills that they learn in one area of the curriculum and apply them in another when we know that that is never going to be useful to them in later life. Fortunately, you must be one of those rare art teachers who never requires a student, even at A level, to accompany their art work with any written analysis, accompanying research or even a title.

fizzbuzz · 19/01/2008 12:09

Aaaah, but we do expect them to, because English is delivered in all subjects (literacy) to enable this to happen.

But it appears anyone can tell people to do naff drawing unless the school has a design/art policy which is shared across whole school to raise standards throughout (just like literacy and numeracy)

We spend a long time teaching students things like, use of colour, layout composition, just like an alpabet. Then all our teaching is ruined by use of bubble writing which is then displayed everywhere!!!

Blandmum · 19/01/2008 12:15

Yoiu'll love me. I've banned bubble writing in my posters!

Waste of blardy time

Lilymaid · 19/01/2008 12:18

I think the sort of posters that MB linked to are fine - and can be done in any subject. What annoyed me and the OP were the "draw a picture of a Norman" type homeworks where nothing more was required than a drawing. Both my DSs were hopeless at drawing and their time would have been better spent doing the flowchart posters or writing a paragraph or two describing a picture and explaining it. This isn't to put drawing down - it would be great if more time was spent teaching children how to draw (rather fancy a Victorian drawing master coming round to instruct me!)

fizzbuzz · 19/01/2008 12:33

lilymaid, that is what I think. Ds had 2 re homeworks, one was to do a poster of John the Baptist, and I can't even remember the other one, but it had to do with someone being caught.

The first one was instructed to be 1/2 red 1/2 blue. How much coloured ink would that take up? The second one ds drew some middle eastern terrorist types with guns. I let him hand it in, becasue I was so pissed of with irrelevant poster homeworks.

They have their place in all subjects, but it is the irrelavancy of some of them that gets me angry.