Montessori or Steiner - anyone have any thoughts?

[Roz]

I've probably come in a bit late on this - but what the hell.
My nephew, who is now 9, went to a Montessori for his first 2 or 3 years of education. He didn't get on with it at all. It seems that it was very much about learning and not enough about having fun and playing. It could have just been the particular one he was at.
I am very interested in sending my daughter to a Steiner school at least for her primary years - but the difficulty is that they are so few and far between. Two friends of mine (adults) are products of Steiner schools and say they are fabulous for the first few years as they focus on motivating children and building up their self esteem. The down side is that they do not focus on academic achievement at all - these friends had to have extra tuition at 'A' Level standard.

I'd recommend that you go and see 3 or 4 nurseries including some 'normal' ones. You may be surprised at what you see and do and don't like the look of. We went to see 3 state primary schools, chose the one which we didn't think we'd like and still ended up pulling him out and sending him to an independant school after only one term!

We have considered sending our child to a steiner school and were not entirely convinced but not for most of the reasons that have been mentioned so far. Contrary to popular beleif a Steiner education is not unstructured or "free and easy ,do what you like" the day is structured with a set curriculum and a strong philosophy. It's just that they beleive that the pace of academic education should be slower than what is offered in traditional education. They believe that their style of education helps produce a more well rounded induvidual. Our main problem with it or maybe just the particular school we looked at was a feeling of "cliquiness" or a kind of smug superiority about it. We wondered if it might be better for our child to go to a local school and feel more locally integrated. On the other hand the attraction to the Steiner school was that our child might benefit from the artistic sensitive and un-academically pushy education.
As far as transferring to a normal school from a Steiner school I think this can be tricky but thats not always the case. I've heard stories of kids who have moved across quite smoothy and have really excelled due to their Steiner experience and other stories of kids who were never able to fit into nomal society let alnoe school after their Steiner experience. Personally, I think the child's family background has a lot to do with how well she does in school and society. The best thing to do is visit the Nursury/School and go with your own feeling about the place and don't be shy about asking loads of questions. You can also read up on the philosophy yourself. But in the end it's a personal decision. Only you know your child and family well enough to know if it's right for you.

Am I the only one who've never heard of either of these two Schools/Nurseries/whatever they are?? Or is it a London thing?

Jac I with you on this one. You don't have much choice round here.
Have these places been in this country long?

Montessori has (quite a lot of nursery schools are run on Montessori principles without declaring themselves a "Montessori School"), since the 50s I believe. Steiner is a bit more recent and there has been a surge of openings of Steiner Schools in London, certainly: one has just opened in Greenwich.
But I think you're right Kate71 - maybe it is a London/urban thing. I would hazard a guess and say that places like Brighton, Cambridge and York have them too?
Maybe the interest in Steiner is fuelled by the fact that their philosophy supports not putting a child into education until 7. There has been some debate here already about the likelihood that children, particularly little boys, do better throughout their educational careers if they start formal education at 6 or 7.

My 7 month old goes to a beautiful Montessori nursery in Aberdeen (not just London!) and we couldn't be happier. 'Alternative' forms of care/education had not really crossed our minds until we experienced it and were very impressed. In fact, it was the only nursery of the many we visited that seemed to have any kind of philosophy or ethos. Respect for each child is at the centre - their own needs, abilities, interests. We particularly liked the fact that there were a large number of babies so they are properly catered for rather than being the token under 2. For all the bustle and activity happening there is an overarching calm/peace which is really nice to experience; there is an order in the chaos of lots of busy children. We are not planning on keeping him in a Montessori school beyond 6 or 7 but if we move top of my list of priorities will be proximity to a Montessori nursery.

anyone know of any good ´alternative´ schools in spain or portugal please?

Sorry to add to this so late but I thought that as an ex-Steiner pupil I might be able to add something. Yes there is little emphasis on exams etc but there was no way we would have been allowed to get away with doing nothing, rudeness etc. If it helps I work as a lecturer in a business school and my boss is also a former steiner kid.

As for comments about the cliqueness, it certainly can come across that way and I remember parents who made a virtue of sending their kids to school in leaky wellies, no chocolate, home-grown veg etc. But I think this exists in different ways in the vast majority of schools, you know the shogun army/ ballet mums...

There certainly seems to have been a burst of Steiner schools and there are loads outside London and the obvious alternative centres like Brighton. My school was in Herefordshire and there were schools in Gloucester, Snowdonia and others. Also areas with Steiner nurseries often have the ultimate aim of setting up a full school.

As for transferring to mainstream education, lots of us did, either at 16 or before and no one had any problems. My husband suffered horribly in state schools and he sounds to me like exactly the sort of child that would have flourished in a Waldorf school, so we're keeping open minds about where are kids will end up!

hwr, thanks for posting. Steiner is new in our part of London and bizarrely (it seems to me) my previous contact with its philosophy was at our butchers' shop, which was very proud of its wonderful organic Demeter-reared meat!
I am also intending to keep an open mind on Steiner for our son, as from what I know it seems very sound. It's great to hear from someone who has been through the system.
I hope you don't mind my asking this (dh works in a business school too) - how do you find the inevitable corporate atmosphere there compares with your experiences of growing up? Do you and your boss sometimes long to give MBA students a quick reality check when they get too obsessed about status and post-course prospects? It just seems such an interesting path in life from Steiner Waldorf to a business school!

To tell the truth I fell into the business school thing, my first degree was in Psychology! Much more Steiner!

I work in the marketing section so I can almost feel virtuous about low pay in academia compared to outside jobs. The corp[orate thing isn't too bad but the politics of the place is unbelievable.

As for MBA students, aaaahhh!

MBA students will get even more worked up now (if possible) because the new FT business school rankings were just published !!!

Can i butt in??

I went to a steiner school and have considered sending my daughter to the same school i attended but only if I feel she needs to.

My point is I was extremely shy as a child and my parents had been to parents evening at my primary school only to watch the teachers face when they said who they were, she had to really think and try to remember who I was. This a appalled them so I was enrolled at a steiner school, it was the best thing they could of done, wilth small classes and no pressure to win or be noticed I loved every single second of it, I look abck at my schools days and the sun is shining! I came out with excellent exam results and wonderful memories of my school days.

If I feel my daughter would benefit a steiner education then I will enrol her, every child is different and has differnet wants and needs I needed one to one, i needed confidence and that's what I came out with.

My older two went to a montessori, ds3 would have but we moved.

Their school wasn't like that though..... very friendlya nd loving. Perhaps it comes down to the person who runs it? Peg was a dear lady, incredibly warm (we still miss her ) It's older than the 50's I think, I have a book on the history of them somewhere (which i am happy to lend) as I did a college presentation on them. What the book emphasises is love, dedication to the wellbeing of the child, and support. Poelpe focus on the notion of no intervention, but it's only no intervention when the child doesn't require it.

It's about making children so excited and confident they WANT to learn, and really enjoy the process. It's about making them have faith in themselves and their own ability to cope.

maria montessori biog

1916 her work was published.

Ds will be going to a montessori nursery and if I could afford it I would send him to a montessori prep school. The montessori schools that I have visited have always been very child centered and caring. Children are free to choose their own activities from the equipment available. I think that they have a reputation as being not very 'play' friendly as they do not tend to have toys. But children have enough toys at home anyway and the nurseries that I have visited have always had such beautiful equipment available that I have never thought of it as being a problem.

Can I add my twopennyworth. Both my boys go to the most wonderful Montessori Pre-school. They are taught to respect others, learn to use their words to resolve disputes/difficulties and become very much independent little people. Yes it may be called work that they do, however this work involves jigsaws, drawing painting, singing dancing as well as snack time. They spend at least 30mins outside playing every session in a wonderful playground packed full of equipment. Not only do my boys love their school the Montessori methodology is helping me deal with them on a day-to-day basis. I even sub at the school. It' not cheap but well worth it.

Is Montessori really quiet and dull? The nursery we visited seemed terrily dull. I think my DS would be bored there pretty quick.

Ours wasn't, no. No toys scattered everywhere but kids having fun, sandpits, colourings, montessori equipment (which is lovely- all natural and tactile) freely available, kids lined up for milk marching and singing....

There are good and bad nurseries in every philosophy I guess

My two pence worth is - if you feel your child may be unsettled in a state school, a steiner or montessori school may be really good. If your child has some additional needs, incredibly shy, or even just can't settle down with having reading and writing forced at an early age, great.

I was very interested in steiner - until we visited our local one last week. I really liked the kindergarten - apple crumble was cooking for snack (the kids had helped make it) and there was lots of crafts involving conkers and mud. Fab.

The school was shocking. There was a year with just ONE pupil (the others in his class had left for various reasons) and he took lessons on his own!!!! Dh and I thought that was appalling.

In the year 3/4 mixed class, the teacher had NO control over the kids who were talking over him. They aren't allowed to discipline them.

I don't like the fact that nothing governs the teachers - they just decide what to teach as and when. Also they have no plan for 'bright' pupils - apparently they won't challenge them any more, just give them more art to 'combat' the extra skills in math/science etc. Plus when I said ds could already count (he's 2.6) the woman was fairly horrified, and said they learn about numbers at the rate of one number a week in years 1 and 2.

I could see it fitting in well for someone who didn't fit into state school system, but for my counting, football loving (football isn't allowed) ds, I think he'll fit in okay at the state school I've picked for him.

I went to a Montessori primary school - well, Montessori-style, they fell out with Maria Montessori so were not "official". It wasn't in London, either - and this was 30+ years ago - so no, not new!

I think the main thing it gave me, and which I look for now in schools for DC (no Montessori round here!) is the culture of learning because you want to, not because you have to. That is what all this "child-centered learning" boils down to, IMHO.

The only downside is that if you want them to go into "conventional" secondary schools and especially if said schools have entrance exams, someone will have to teach them to take tests, as that is one thing Montessori education leaves you completely unprepared for .

peachy - so yours went there too did they? . Peg was wonderful. The only thing I didn't like was that there was no outdoor space. DS#1 didn't enjoy it - but he didn't enjoy school either when he started. DD loved it. DS#2 isn't there as my CM was retiring and I needed 8-5 care rather than just a few hours.

Steiner isn't just a London thing. There's a school at Bruton a few miles away from here. I'd love it for DS#1 who isn't getting the most out of his school atm ..to say the least. But feel it's a bit late - not to mention impossible logistically.

My dd1 went to an "ordinary" nursery at my workplace, all day so I could work. It was fine, using lots of originally Montessori ideas as they all do these days (small furniture for example). DD2 goes to a Montessori half time and the work one the other half. DDs are very similar, doing things at the same age, but what I notice is that DD2 is more determined and able to help herself, i.e. with dressing, deciding what to do and getting it out, willingly putting it away,etc. and I think this results in increased confidence in her even though she is naturally a bit shyer, and is down to Montessori. There is more emphasis on looking after yourself and your things, the "work" is done earlier in the day at the Montessori, when they are feeling brighter, and the afternoon is spent playing (originally they refused to keep the kids at all in the afternoon). DD2 seems to have more belief in herself and her abilities, even though she is often outshined by big sis, she doesn't beat herself up like I think DD1 would have if the tables were turned.

What sort of fees are we talking about for the Steiner schools?

I've just been reading all your comments about schools and this is my first posting. I took my older son out of a 'good' local primary after reception because he was incredibly miserable. He's been at St Paul's Steiner ever since - he's now 10 and can stay till 14. He has a wonderful teacher, great friends and is very happy. My younger son is now in class 1 (aged 7) after 3 happy years in kindergarten, but there are lots of problems with the teacher and you realise that Steiner stands and falls on the quality of the class teacher who is with the children for so many years. Steiner does attract a few nutty parents, but lots of us are fairly normal. I have many issues with how the school is managed and think it's a huge problem that there is no headteacher.

Omiirian- Wow! Peg is wonderful yes, fantastic. Really wish DS3 could go there (but we moved) ans both he and DS1 have been diagnosed as on the auttistic spectrum (ds3 more severely) and the only time DS1 made decent progress with literary skills was with peg.

Funnily enough, ds2 was singing the Peg song she taught him (peggy peggy Peggy hanging all the clothes on the washing line) yesterday- haven't heard it in years LOL!

They did used to have a garden, but the owner sold it