Russian Oligarchs using UK fee paying schools

[Chocalata]

Is this really such a big thing as the papers make out? I quizzed friends with DC at boarding school and it really doesn't sound like there are many Russian children in their schools at all. I feel quite bad for any Russian children that are at the moment, it must be quite terrifying to be alone in a boarding school in another country, even if your parents are potentially money laundering and financially supporting an atrocious invasion.

@Zilla1
Also, weirdly, that poster was almost spot on with the number of Russian children - this article quotes the ISC figure.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/education/russian-pupils-uk-private-schools-ukraine-invasion-1484927/amp

The first stage of money laundering is placement where you introduce illicit funds into the legit economy. The benefit that they're getting from it is not necessarily clean money out the other side but the reputational impact / integration with UK society which legitimises their activities.

Paying school fees isn't placement, it will be integration. The laundering is long over by the time it gets near any school fees.

Ut got spun out of proportion because reading between the lines one of the posters is an advocate of illegal hunting and kept asking me to clarify my wording.

You don’t like it pointed out that you’re talking gibberish, therefore I must enjoy seeing innocent animals torn apart? Okay then.

You’re losing yet more credibility with every fresh post of slurry.

@ThymePoultice
Why waste time picking apart my wording then? You might not like this thread but I have enjoyed reading people’s opinions, feel like I have learnt a lot, and will enjoy mulling this all over in my head. That is what I enjoy about Mumsnet, I get to learn from people I would not normally get to speak to.You have just wanted to tear me apart from your first post which isn’t very nice. So if you don’t enjoy this thread, please do leave.

My understanding, OP, is that oligarchs children and indeed children of rich Russian parents in general, are unevenly distributed. A majority of private schools will have none and most parents of children at private schools will say there are none for that reason. Most will be based in a limited geography and/or tend to be boarding and will tend to be 'upper echelon' schools if you are talking about Russian oligarchs instead of solely ethnic Russians. The number of oligarchs is very low by definition and many will use other jurisdictions like Le Rosey where the security is adequate.

@Zilla1
Thank you, that is really interesting to read and understand.

[quote Chocalata]@ThymePoultice
Why waste time picking apart my wording then? You might not like this thread but I have enjoyed reading people’s opinions, feel like I have learnt a lot, and will enjoy mulling this all over in my head. That is what I enjoy about Mumsnet, I get to learn from people I would not normally get to speak to.You have just wanted to tear me apart from your first post which isn’t very nice. So if you don’t enjoy this thread, please do leave.[/quote]
I was about to hide it TBH. But I won’t now I know that you’re going to allege things like that.

I was initially engaging because I was shocked at your lack of logical reasoning and wondering about your motivation.

Now I’m just watching to see how many baseless accusations you throw around as a smoke screen.

@HundredMilesAnHour

The first stage of money laundering is placement where you introduce illicit funds into the legit economy. The benefit that they're getting from it is not necessarily clean money out the other side but the reputational impact / integration with UK society which legitimises their activities.

Paying school fees isn't placement, it will be integration. The laundering is long over by the time it gets near any school fees.

That's a fair point. I think I was going to write about all three stages and then got distracted by a small child. Thank you for correcting me!

@mynameiscalypso @HundredMilesAnHour

Thank you for clearing that up. Definitely not something I know anything about!

@Zilla1

My understanding, OP, is that oligarchs children and indeed children of rich Russian parents in general, are unevenly distributed. A majority of private schools will have none and most parents of children at private schools will say there are none for that reason. Most will be based in a limited geography and/or tend to be boarding and will tend to be 'upper echelon' schools if you are talking about Russian oligarchs instead of solely ethnic Russians. The number of oligarchs is very low by definition and many will use other jurisdictions like Le Rosey where the security is adequate.

Exactly this. My ex works for an oligarch (yes, seriously - he merrily flies around in a private jet earning a ridiculous amount of money but obviously this comes at a price, his soul possibly) and obviously mixes with other oligarchs through business interests. He lives in Zug, and that whole reason is very 'oligarch property heavy' due to the tax (or lack of) regime there plus the Swiss banks historically being less 'diligent' about source of funds (although has changed and continues to change).

[quote Chocalata]@Pootles34 That sounds horrible for them, poor girls. Do you think the Russian children will have to leave because the UK government wants to clean up the system? I would have thought the schools had systems in place to spot the money laundering?[/quote]
you can't seriously think that schools would have systems in place to know the provenance of the parents' money when major institutions have allowed them to legitimise themselves for some 30 years? and even if schools did, would they stand up against it when no other institutions do? They'd probably be sued off the planet like anyone who tries to stand up to them
www.dw.com/en/harpercollins-settles-lawsuit-with-roman-abramovich/a-60227908
www.transparency.org.uk/uk-money-laundering-stats-russia-suspicious-wealth
and it's not just schools, it is universities too
www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/2021-12/2021-12-08-uk-kleptocracy-problem-heathershaw-mayne-et-al.pdf

Most of the original Robber Barrons' children are well past school age and through uni, although a number are onto the second and third families with their younger new wives, some of their grandchildren in the preps now

@time4anothername
I am definitely a bit naive. Will have a read of the links, thank you.

I cannot believe what I am reading? Suggesting that children should be kicked out of school because of their nationality?

What did people do when the US and Britain invaded Iraq and Afghanistan?

[quote Chocalata]@time4anothername
I am definitely a bit naive. Will have a read of the links, thank you.[/quote]
Ask yourself why you think schools could identify money laundering when the banks have thousands of people dedicated to identifying it and preventing it, and every single UK bank employee is trained on it each year and can be prosecuted (and receive up to 5 years in prison if convicted) if they DON'T REPORT a reasonable SUSPICION of money laundering?!

Surely this gives you an indication of how sophisticated money laundering must be these days? And you think someone in the school admin team will pick up on it because the banks have missed something?

Coyoacan there is a lot of talking cross purposes, and people misunderstanding what each other are actually saying on this thread. So, I hope that is not what pps are suggesting.
For example, I made what I thought was a fairly insipid point (about my hopefully unfounded concerns over a backlash) and a poster misinterpreted what I was saying and seemed to insinuate that I was a troll!
Reading my posts back, I recognise that I was being a bit inarticulate and not expressing myself well.
Emotions are running high.

A fundamental principle of any school is to act in the best interests of the child. That includes independent schools. Boarding schools will be more worried about the fact that these children will not be able to travel home in the holidays due to no flights/danger to them/possible conscription of anyone male who is already over 18. Actual oligarchs and those on the U.K. target list will most likely have prepaid fees day 1 anyway.

@SquishySquirmy- I didn’t think you were a troll, rather the opposite. Speaking much sense. I too am fed up of the post Brexit casual racism, the post Covid blatant racism and distrust of China and now the judgment of ordinary Russians living in the U.K.- many of whom are indeed middle class Russians working in professional jobs who were privileged enough to escape the country and regime when they could. There are plenty of them at both my Children’s state and independent schools, as well as Ukrainians of course. Not one is extraordinarily rich.

Apologies OP for the mis-intepretation of your fox hunting interlude.

@Zilla1 thank you. I really enjoyed your post, and feel I have learnt so much from all the various posters. We live very rurally and fairly isolated and I feel so disengaged from so much of what I read and feel I need to know the reality hiding behind the headlines and mumsnet can be so helpful with that.

@HundredMilesAnHour I am ashamed to say I have no idea how a school admin team / bursar works but I suppose if pushed I might have imagined there was a way of spotting and turning away pupils who came from families where there was suspicion about their money and motives. A sort of ‘suspicion list’ of dodgy families! But clearly it is much more complicated than that. I have learnt so much from these posts, thank you. I really hope that the lovely Russian families who choose a UK education for the simple reason that they want their children to experience it are not tarred with the same brush as the tiny minority of insidious individuals who use the UK systems for their own purposes.

All my children are at school with Russian children, some boarding and nobody bats an eyelid. Not sure why they would be hated... By who? The boys all get on, are friends and are not going to get international politics get in the way of that. And rightly so too.

My daughter is flying to see a Russian friend over Easter (not resident IN Russia) and hasn't batted an eyelid or cancelled the trip or anything.

[quote Chocalata]@HundredMilesAnHour I am ashamed to say I have no idea how a school admin team / bursar works but I suppose if pushed I might have imagined there was a way of spotting and turning away pupils who came from families where there was suspicion about their money and motives. A sort of ‘suspicion list’ of dodgy families! But clearly it is much more complicated than that. I have learnt so much from these posts, thank you. I really hope that the lovely Russian families who choose a UK education for the simple reason that they want their children to experience it are not tarred with the same brush as the tiny minority of insidious individuals who use the UK systems for their own purposes.[/quote]
Not just those “insidious individuals” . All those who are enmeshed with Putin.

[quote Chocalata]@HundredMilesAnHour I am ashamed to say I have no idea how a school admin team / bursar works but I suppose if pushed I might have imagined there was a way of spotting and turning away pupils who came from families where there was suspicion about their money and motives. A sort of ‘suspicion list’ of dodgy families! But clearly it is much more complicated than that. I have learnt so much from these posts, thank you. I really hope that the lovely Russian families who choose a UK education for the simple reason that they want their children to experience it are not tarred with the same brush as the tiny minority of insidious individuals who use the UK systems for their own purposes.[/quote]
@Chocalata you're missing my point (in the nicest possible way). If (and this is a very big IF) the proceeds of crime get past all the highly trained, highly experienced people on the constant look out for any hint of suspicious money laundering activities at banks, do you really think a school admin team is going to spot something the bank missed??? You can't just say "well you're Russian and you're loaded so you must be dodgy".

@HundredMilesAnHour
No I do understand what you explained- I was simply saying that had I been pushed to say what I imagined happened (before you taught me otherwise) I might have imagined that there was an international list of known oligarchs with laundering history that could be accessed by schools - sort of financial version of sex offenders list. But you made very clear that those people are able to slip their activities past the experts, so no way would a one man band bursar office in Berkshire spot it! Like I said I have no expericence or understanding of these things!