South West London 11plus, private schools

[deerison]

My son is at a state primary and we are now preparing for selective secondary. I know friends at private primary school are given advice on which schools to apply for in terms of how competitive they are ie. aspirational, try for, back up. We are a bit clueless.

Can anyone help me with my ordering/correcting my ordering?:-
Grammar
Super competitive
Tiffin
Competitive
Sutton
Wilson's
Wallington
-what are the differences with these three?

Private
Super competitive
Kings Wimbledon
St. Paul's

Competitive
Hampton
KGS

?? Not sure slightly less comp/easy bets??
Reeds
Claremont fan court
Hall school
Radnor house
Emmanuel
Epsom college
Ewell castle
Hampton court house
Ibstock place
Whitgift Croydon

Any feedback in schools also welcome. Thank you!

Forgot to say that many parents park at the Roehampton car park in Richmond Park which is very close by and lots of free parking on local residential roads

PITA to be driving a secondary age DC to school.

Thanks cockwomblingfree. I may try some of those idea, like the idea of ear defenders to concentrate. I myself find I concentrate best with quite loud background music weirdly. Much better that with silence! So these things can make a big difference.

Yes he is quirky and has had some extra support at school. They have suggested a referral for possible asd or adhd, but we have held off on that as not sure it's necessary or going to add much. This is possibly not the right decision but my dh in particular is not keen on over analysing/medicalising quirks/character traits.

With regards ibstock travel. We actually have a bus that stops a 9 min walk from the school. Would you think at 11 it would be safe to travel by public bus/to do the walk from the bus stop down the lane to the school?

@AnotherNewt
The OP was asking about parking near the school and that was the information I was giving. There are plenty of opportunities to visit the school and require parking, not just the school run! Don’t forget it also has a prep school so parents do have to drive them…

My pleasure. I'm like you, need music/background noise to concentrate so I don't understand my DC with this at all. The ear defenders have made a world of difference though.

And I was exactly the same as your DH when DS was Y5, didn't want to label/medicalise and there's a lot to be said for that, some DC can grow into their labels - always best avoided. They are who they are, over analysing is unfair on DC.

However, what the tests do is pinpoint where they might need extra support in a way schools aren't capable of and the results can be surprising. They are also very child friendly and pretty quick, not scary. My DC enjoyed them, it got him out of playing rugby . It doesn't give DC an advantage but it does level them up to achieve full potential and this is important looking at your list of schools. When mine was Y5 I was so hung up on looking at the schools, past papers, destinations, co-curricular etc, I almost failed to notice what was going on with DC right under my nose, and DC would definitely not be at the school he is now without that support. An assessment doesn't mean a label or EHCP anyway, a good school will put things in place without the need for a full formal diagnosis which is why I suggested an O.T. and/or Ed Psych. Its sort of a half way house.

A 10 minute walk should be fine for an 11 year old. My DC friends at the super selectives have to do a train or bus journey plus a walk at both ends. Mine boards these days though so I can't really comment.

Did anyone's son sit the kgs 10plus? Mine did and awaiting results, though expecting a no at this stage!

Hi came here to hear more about CFC but stayed as really interested in the comments here - describes my DS to a tee! Thanks for the tip re: OT.

We’re yr6 and exams done without tutor support, and no siblings to compare to… but was more than sure going into this that his results at both school and the exams are being compromised by writing speed!

DS still struggles with writing speed (though his handwriting itself has improved) and noise and told me himself just last week he wishes he could wear headphones at school or stay at the “focus table” all lessons. Just thought it’s something he’s not used to/ something he will learn, but now I know it’s something he can actually get help with! Couldn’t have read this post at a better point in time! Thanks again!

I can help with experience with kids at super selective and top private.

Grammar
Super-selective
Wilson’s
Tiffin

Sutton
Wallington

Independent
St Paul’s
King’s
RGS
Hampton

Reed’s
St John
Epsom

For the state grammar schools Tiffin has a catchment area, Wilson’s does not and performs better in recent years. There is a large difference academically (and what is on offer Ezra-curricular) b/n Wilson’s and Sutton/Wellington schools.

@musicathome76 Where would you place KGS in this list?

@Thisonesfortheroad academically Kingston grammar is in the group with Reeds, but it has less grounds and extra-curricular.
It is a nice co-educational school, but not extremely academic with less impressive grounds that St Jonhs group of school and cheaper.
It really depends what you are after. Good luck!

@musicathome76 I think you’ve summed up our current dilemma:

DS is very fortunate to have an offer from the more academically driven Hampton, the well resourced rounded offerings of Reeds and St John’s (+ option to board), and our closest school, (walking distance) KGS.

We’re serviced by good transport/ school coaches to the others, so although KGS is the closest, it isn’t enough to be the deciding factor.

Hampton’s academic results speak for themselves, but the facilities at the others are a major pull.

Really missed not being able to visit all the schools beforehand due to Covid - not had benefit of “feeling” our way around them.

Don’t forget St John’s which is also on the much lighter end to get into. I actually don’t know anyone who has been rejected from there assuming they’ve had a bit of preparation.

OP if you’re Y5 now you have quite a lot of work to do, have you been preparing / tutoring? What are your child’s CAT scores, and have you signed up to a platform like Atom?

I’d say

Hardest…
St Pauls
KCS
Hampton

Then…
Epsom
RGS
KGS

Then…
Then Reed’s, St John’s, St George’s

Then….
Halliford, Claremont etc

Hi,
@musicathome76 I have to say I think your ranking of KGS is most definitely on the harsh side! One quick check of A Level results and you can see they achieve 84% A/A vs Hampton at 92%. Reeds comes in at 60% and St John's state 'just under half' get A/A. KGS is clearly much closer to Hampton academically than the other two by some margin! @Thisonesfortheroad you obviously have your own research to do but please be very wary of the rankings listed by posters. There are clearly many many factors to look at when deciding on a school(with academics being only one of them) but I think to class a school that gets 84% A*/A as not extremely academic is misleading! I am probably biased as I have 3 at KGS but both my DS's were also fortunate enough to have offers from all the schools you have listed and we haven't regretted our decision for a moment. We wanted an academic school but did have a preference for co-ed which swung it for us over Hampton. We also absolutely love the fact it is in the town centre as great for socialising and learning to navigate public transport early on. But again, that was our personal preference. Your DS has done brilliantly well and you have a very exciting decision ahead of you. Congrats!

I'd really recommend Atom learning. You can put in the school you are aiming for and it will give you an idea of where he is relative to the rest of the kids that are using the platform. There's a free trial I think.

Ooh not aware of atom learning. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look it up.

We have got him into group tutoring now but not yet had really clear feedback on ability. When I asked, the response was... "....bright boy and certainly capable of sitting exams for schools such as Hampton boys." He is 'greater depth' at his school.

But no CAT results etc or indication of likelihood of getting an offer. I think we may just have to sit quite a few schools, so as to not take too much risk.

@CrazyDaisy7668

Hi, *@musicathome76 I have to say I think your ranking of KGS is most definitely on the harsh side! One quick check of A Level results and you can see they achieve 84% A/A vs Hampton at 92%. Reeds comes in at 60% and St John's state 'just under half' get A/A. KGS is clearly much closer to Hampton academically than the other two by some margin! @Thisonesfortheroad you obviously have your own research to do but please be very wary of the rankings listed by posters. There are clearly many many factors to look at when deciding on a school(with academics being only one of them) but I think to class a school that gets 84% A/A as not extremely academic is misleading! I am probably biased as I have 3 at KGS but both my DS's were also fortunate enough to have offers from all the schools you have listed and we haven't regretted our decision for a moment. We wanted an academic school but did have a preference for co-ed which swung it for us over Hampton. We also absolutely love the fact it is in the town centre as great for socialising and learning to navigate public transport early on. But again, that was our personal preference. Your DS has done brilliantly well and you have a very exciting decision ahead of you. Congrats!

I have to agree. Kgs says around 10% go on to oxbridge and 80% Russell group. Whereas reeds and at John is not as clear but Oxbridge looks like around 4 students per year. Plus there grades are lower.

Sorry that grammar would not get me in anywhere ! In my defence, I'm rushing to see my Valentine!

OP, are you sure they haven’t done any CAT tests? If not, then there are tests you can do in Atom that give standardised age scores and tell you where they fit for each school. You can see there the rough levels they’re looking for:

KCS / St Pauls - 130-135 (out of 140)
Hampton - 130
KGS - 125ish
Then Epsom -120ish
St John’s, Reed’s etc around 110 is usually enough assuming you have other strings to your bow such as sports or music to a good level

National average is around 95-100 I believe

@SonicBroom

OP, are you sure they haven’t done any CAT tests? If not, then there are tests you can do in Atom that give standardised age scores and tell you where they fit for each school. You can see there the rough levels they’re looking for:

KCS / St Pauls - 130-135 (out of 140)
Hampton - 130
KGS - 125ish
Then Epsom -120ish
St John’s, Reed’s etc around 110 is usually enough assuming you have other strings to your bow such as sports or music to a good level

National average is around 95-100 I believe

I've just signed up for an atom learning trial-it's a great site. My son has tried 3 mock tests non v reasoning, English and verbal reasoning. However I'm now worried because he only finished the first one and his sas (atom cat scores) were 104, 114 and 109. In your experience do these scores stay pretty static or improve over time?

You can improve them, especially the non verbal reasoning, but the other kids will improve too, so yours will need to improve at a better rate.

Thanks @CrazyDaisy7668 I too was surprised at Sonicbroom’s post regarding KGS’s perceived ranking, given their clear academic prowess esp compared with the Reed’s cluster. But it is useful to know how it the schools are perceived- hence my question.

Don’t worry, we are looking at a multitude of things in making our decision and perception/ reputation is just one on our list.

Also, perhaps @SonicBroom is ranking in terms of difficulty of exams? In which case my DS would agree that KGS was simpler as it did not test reasoning, focusing instead on Maths and Literacy ie work they actually do at his state primary school.

Reasoning is not something we put a lot of focus on in our (apparently late, self managed) specific exam prep, as covering lessons lost to the pandemic and getting his writing sped/ legibility improved were more important.

I also agree with your point that having mixed classes is appealing. Both StJ and KGS offer this from Yr7.

Having “Kingston” as the obvious social hub for KGS is a lot neater, thanks for pointing this out. I’m not sure where Reed’s or Hampton kids meet to hangout? StJ offers flexi-boarding as a partial solution to this and the facilities StJ mean DH is a little besotted.

I’m fascinated by the fact that OxBridge success is such an important factor for so many parents on here. We’re nonplussed re:OxBridge, so that’s not a measure for us, but % of pupils achieving their first choice from higher ed is definitely something we’re paying attention to.

DS is rightly focused on fit with his current interests, the other kids, facilities and teaching staff.

DH and I are therefore trying to weigh up the other stuff: wider opportunities, pastoral care, mix and makeup of pupils, leadership, practicalities, school values and ethos etc.

Not having seen all the schools is making it harder to decide between them. At least we’ve whittled it down to 4 I guess. At this stage though, honestly, all insight/ info/ opinions are welcome.

I have a feeling that for Hampton boys, Kingston is the obvious weekend hang out place too. After school I imaging they go to clubs or straight home or to a friends house.

Oxbridge is not really important to me, but I mentioned it to back up the KGS vs other schools discussion as it is a good indicator of academic excellence among the pupils in the school and a high Oxbridge number, is probably indicative of a high average academic performance in the school.

Yes, good point @deerison I see now how oxbridge is an indicator of success in teaching/ development of pupils.

Thanks for answering the Hampton hangout question too. Kingston is so easy to travel to, I expect it could make for their natural hub. Guess whatever we chose, schools pull from quite wide areas these days and therefore unlikely kids will hangout with DS at home or in hometown after school.

my dh in particular is not keen on over analysing/medicalising quirks/character traits.

I can't understand how a parent who has an objection to an assessment of a potential problem which might turn out to hold a child back and interfere with his self confidence would simultaneously be supporting putting that child through the rigours of the 11+ and a possible interview process to get into certain schools.

I would urge you to get individual tutoring, not group, and ask the tutor if he or she sees any indications of a need for an assessment (also make sure your tutor knows what s/he is talking about).