South West London 11plus, private schools

[deerison]

My son is at a state primary and we are now preparing for selective secondary. I know friends at private primary school are given advice on which schools to apply for in terms of how competitive they are ie. aspirational, try for, back up. We are a bit clueless.

Can anyone help me with my ordering/correcting my ordering?:-
Grammar
Super competitive
Tiffin
Competitive
Sutton
Wilson's
Wallington
-what are the differences with these three?

Private
Super competitive
Kings Wimbledon
St. Paul's

Competitive
Hampton
KGS

?? Not sure slightly less comp/easy bets??
Reeds
Claremont fan court
Hall school
Radnor house
Emmanuel
Epsom college
Ewell castle
Hampton court house
Ibstock place
Whitgift Croydon

Any feedback in schools also welcome. Thank you!

Know most but not all those schools, buts looks about right!
What year is your son in at the moment? Where do you live?....as transport to and from is something to definitely consider.

'Super selective' means that it's highest marks in first, tie breaks (such as distance) only when they reach the score that takes the number who would qualify over the number of available places.

Selective means that the candidate has to reach the qualifying score, but then other criteria apply, such as distance or catchment.

Private schools don't follow that methodology, or use that terminology.

They can be very selective/highly competitive - all on test scores, high mark needed, tie break by Interview performance and/or reference. Or selective/competitive - ditto but not such a high academic bar to get over, plus maybe recognition for co-curricular prowess or siblings. Rare to have a distance criteria, though some will exclude those with very long journeys to school.

And for some with 13+ CE entry it's a qualifying exam at that point, but you have to compete for the conditional offer p, which is again exam, interview, reference and co-curricular prowess

All of which can be overlaid by competition for academic, co-curricular or all-rounder scholarships and bursary awards

Could someone / some people who are in the know order the "less competitive"?
And also include Dulwich, Eltham and Trinity?

As an example, and I only really know from looking on mumsnet, it seems Whitgift is easier than Dulwich or Trinity, but maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for the replies. We're raynes park and my son is currently year 4.

I meant year 5! My son is year 5-losing track!

Wilson's , Sutton, Wallington will largely be a matter of taste and how easy to get to. Wilson's is barely SW London. Epsom College is very expensive, Ewell Castle I would put at the other end of the spectrum. It's a sort of safe sheltered environment for those who don't make grammar or more elite schools and don't want to chance their arm at the local comp. or are sporty.

I would rearrange:

Competitive
Hampton
KGS
Trinity
Dulwich
Whitgift

Reeds
Epsom
Emmanuel

?? Not sure slightly less comp/easy bets??

Claremont fan court
Hall school
Radnor house

Ewell castle
Hampton court house
Ibstock place

Thank you Christophertracy this is very useful! Do you have a view on any of the schools?

Don't know if this helps but I know someone who coaches for private school/grammar entrance and Claremont is one that she advises for kids that are going to struggle to get into schools even with coaching.

@deerison , with a ds in year 5 you must know where he sits ability wise in the class and you may be aware of which dc in the class are being tutored for the Tiffin exams in September. If not it would be helpful if you found a local tutor who can meet your ds and advise on his ability level.

Some of the schools listed are in some cases back ups to a decent state non selective secondary which you also have in the Raynes Park area.

You also need to familiarise yourself with the fees structure of some private schools as you will see at Epsom college there is a jump in fees from age 13 onward (year 9).

If you are considering the grammar options there is loads of info on the
elevenplusexams.co.uk website Surrey section including info on mock exams taking place this summer.
Best of luck with it all and book as many open days as you can this Spring.

Thank you both very helpful.

I do know roughly where my son is in terms of ability but only within the state sector and not his exam performance. He is usually getting exceeded expectations and doesn't not struggle to get concepts etc. I think he is within the top third for sure, may within the top 3 or 4. Spelling, handwriting, reading and mental arithmetic all good. Lateral thinking good.

But he sometimes lacks focus, application and speed. He also says he finds school boring and loud, so doesn't maximise his potential in terms of engagement and effort imo. Eg. He might do a short piece of writing unchecked, whereas other children of the same ability might have written more and checked it.

So really hard to gauge what schools he will get into.

I would advise taking him to a tutor for an assessment to give you all an idea of how much work he would have to do out of school.
Perhaps speak to another parent in the year who is preparing their dc for Tiffin.

The private schools in sw London take at least 50% of their intake at age 11 from the state sector so if your ds is at a good primary school and in the top 3 or 4 of a class of 30 you are looking at KGS/Reeds (high fees) and Claremont fan as a back up. If he is interested in learning then look at Hampton.
On the Hampton website show him the web page re the written papers and read out the list of novels they expect dc to have read and ask him if this is something he is interested in learning more about.

Once you start to visit the schools you will learn more, some parents dislike the KGS site in the centre of Kingston with all the sports grounds in Thames Ditton and find Hampton too remote and dependent on the school coach service. Reeds and Epsom are more luxurious, don't visit unless you want to commit! Claremont Fan is gorgeous but not as academic etc.

Thank you. We have started him with a group tutor now but haven't had a lot of useful feedback about levels. I'll prove her but I think she is more geared for the grammars.

It sounds that you are on the right track if he is already in a tutor group. I'm sure he will end up at the right school and you live in a good location with many (may be too many) options. If you lived in somewhere like Isleworth your list would be much shorter!
Just to add I'm not familiar with Whitgift/ Trinity so didn't mention.

@ChristopherTracy

I would rearrange:

Competitive
Hampton
KGS
Trinity
Dulwich
Whitgift

Reeds
Epsom
Emmanuel

?? Not sure slightly less comp/easy bets??

Claremont fan court
Hall school
Radnor house

Ewell castle
Hampton court house
Ibstock place

Thankyou ChristopherTracy

@ChristopherTracy

I would rearrange:

Competitive
Hampton
KGS
Trinity
Dulwich
Whitgift

Reeds
Epsom
Emmanuel

?? Not sure slightly less comp/easy bets??

Claremont fan court
Hall school
Radnor house

Ewell castle
Hampton court house
Ibstock place

I would put Claremont fan and Ibstock in list with Reeds, Epsom etc. Epsom super high fees. I don't know anyone who wanted Epsom who didn't get an offer. Other things to consider: How is your child's confidence - Do you want your child running to keep up or at the higher or middle of the cohort. It is very easy for a child to lose confidence if they are near the bottom (someone has to be though!) Look a the curriculum and gcse choices. Do the schools offer single science or "triple/double" and how does this suit your child. Ie if they are wanting to pursue eg maths, physics but no interest in biology then a school with single sciences may be better suited as lower performance in one science may lead to "double" gcse. Some of the schools have minimum two languages to be studied at GCSE eg ibstock. This may not suit your child. What are the compulsory GCSE's and how wide is the provision of the gcse options and can you take all the subjects your child may want to take eg if they are very into music, drama, art, humanities - can they do all those options. As I said the are more factors to consider beyond the school's position in the "league table". Most important is whether it fits with your child's aspirations, interests and disposition.

Thank you deuxgarcons very helpful! I have not thought of some of you points at all. I would definitely prefer single sciences I think and yes two languages may not be ideal either....more food for though. It really difficult to choose, at least the testing helps narrow it down - one good thing about it all!

@Pollypocket81

Could someone / some people who are in the know order the "less competitive"? And also include Dulwich, Eltham and Trinity?

As an example, and I only really know from looking on mumsnet, it seems Whitgift is easier than Dulwich or Trinity, but maybe I'm wrong.

Whitgift is easier, but that's partly a numbers game. Trinity has 10+ entry, and DC has their junior school, so I believe they are each only taking on about 70 additional boys whereas Whitgift fills 120/130 places.

I've been looking at the onward lists of university entry and Ibstock looks good. (Whereas some of the others on the not super comp list look more mixed). Lots of top universities, academic subjects. Is it pretty academic? I know very little about the school but like the sound of it from the website. Is it very small? How easy is parking?

Which of the schools is good for maths and science in particular, if any?

Ibstock is a school people love or hate, you need to read the reviews on MN.
Hampton has good maths/science but really they are all good.
If you are aiming for a top uni then focus on the grammar schools rather than private.

The trouble with Ibstock is that it's a bit of a pig to get to. Check what the journey would really be like

Ibstock has amazing results for both maths and science. The top sets take triple science and all three subjects gain 97-100% A- A. Maths is obviously taken by all students and their results are approx. 90% A- A at GCSE. I think that is pretty incredible given that it is classed as a second tier school and has a very varied ability level cohort. They do however have to take French at GCSE which does mean 2 languages, as a pp said, but the choices include Mandarin, Latin, German or Spanish. It’s not as academically pushy as some of the top tier schools but a bright child will do extremely well at the school. New head took over in Jan 2020 and has made many changes, which means one should take the MN ‘haters’ of the school with a pinch of salt as most are historical.
There are school buses from Barnes Station and coach services have been introduced from other areas to improve transport to and from school.

Forgot to say that many parents park at the Roehampton car park in Richmond Park which is very close by and lots of free parking on local residential roads.

The Senior school has approx 650 pupils with roughly 105-120 in a year. Hope that helps.

he sometimes lacks focus, application and speed. He also says he finds school boring and loud, so doesn't maximise his potential in terms of engagement and effort imo. Eg. He might do a short piece of writing unchecked, whereas other children of the same ability might have written more and checked it. this sounds exactly like one of mine at that age. We sorted that out with writing aids (pencil grip thingies, different shaped pens) and discreet ear defenders. Mine went from middling and frustrated to top of the top set plus working on independent projects to engage him with these things in place. Schools won't do it if you don't ask, they might not even spot a need if he's doing well enough regardless. Is he quirky? High functioning can sometimes come with things like auditory sensitivity or hyper-mobility which could be the reason for slower writing. A good school will help with that and also teach him to type for essays but again you have to tell them.

Has he seen an occupational therapist? You can do that privately. Also Ed. Psych. If his writing is slow and he struggles to focus that's where I'd start TBH.

I have to add that chatting to a friend recently, her DS needed writing aid thingies too at this age. He later won a scholarship to a very well known school and doesn't use the writing aids at all now, but they fixed the issue so he could get on at the time.