Do private schools give bursaries/scholarships to parents with decent salaries?

[Alyosha]

I feel certain that the answer to this will be "no" but wanted to check.

We have two DS, 3 and 3 months. We both have good jobs, joint salary is over £100k, very comfortable and we have no complaints about our standard of living. We live in London, where private school fees seem to have gone absolutely nuts. I went to SHHS which was £9k pa by time I left in 2007; so very expensive but would be just about affordable for me & DH for 2 DCs. Occasionally they send me a begging letter asking me to donate for their fund to build a world class music centre...can't say I'm too motivated to donate now their fees are pushing £20k pa.

I can't see any way that we could afford school fees for both boys in 2- 3 year's time even with our good incomes. But looking at the support available it's only if you're earning under £80k. But there's no way I would have thought a family jointly earning £80k could afford £20k in school fees for 2 children (£40k net a year!) with mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries etc.

So our only option would be a scholarship, but most scholarships seem to be 20% max off fees, which doesn't make them affordable, especially not long term. Is there anywhere that has substantial fee remission for a scholarship in commuting distance of North London, either primary or secondary?

This is of course assuming the DCs would even get scholarships, which I realise is a tall order!

Sell the house and but a small cheaper flat.
Shop at discount stores for food - or even better still use food banks.
Forgo holidaying in the Maldives for a few years.
Sell the car and use public transport.

do you really think families with 100k don't live in flats, shop in Aldi & go camping?

Or use public transport!

You are hunting around for any old private school that will offer your kids a reduced price place, as long as it is a private school.

Your kids are too young to even know what their characters will be, how academic they will be, whether they will have difficulties learning etc. You have no clue yet where they will do best, but just feel like they should go private because you did. You're even considering making them take up a music instrument to increase their chances. This is nuts. And how far are you going to make them travel every day to get to an affordable school?

OP I would do state school ‘plus’ and give your children a fantastic extra curricular offering which in London is very easy. It’s the difference between buying an all inclusive holiday where you eat all your meals at the same place and don’t have to leave the hotel, or booking separate flights, hotel and restaurants and trips based on your research.
I know so many inspiring, articulate and ambitious kids going through the state system, I can tell you that you really don’t need to worry. Also factor in that on 100k your kids are not going to get a full student loan - I think the cap is 60k to get the full £9k. Tertiary education is so important, contextual offers are to some extent levelling the field and this is only going to continue with a Tory government that needs to commit to levelling education due to a tranche of new red wall voters, or an incoming labour government. I think in the current climate children who are privately educated can be stigmatised and miss out on job interviews by companies needing to appear to be moving with the times. My DB is a consultant at one of the famous big name accountancy firms and their recruitment process had just had a bomb dropped on it.
I am not anti private school and went to one myself but things are very different now and there are a ton of parents like yourself putting their children through the state sector who are very happy with the results. Also a lot of parents paying enormous fees who are not sure it is worth it. Classic middle class angst and questioning whatever sector you go for I reckon!

I know someone who moved to my area, put their DC in our private school, and then after 6 months said they couldn't afford it. They
got a big chunk off the fees. They did it knowingly.

I am guessing that I and the other full-paying parents are subsidising this? How is that fair?

It is total cheeky f'ery. If you can't pay don't send them.

Personally, I think ALL bursaries should be kept for DC who would benefit from a private education for whatever reason and I would happily contribute to that. That isn't how it happens though. I know loads who try it on and they rock up in massive 100K SUV's and have holiday homes overseas.

My DH boarded from the age of seven and went to what was considered to be a very expensive independent school from 13.
It was then that he was found to be dyslexic and was given the help he needed so the benefit for him was huge. This was the early 70s when very little was known about dyslexia.

I went to a state grammar and our children went to independent schools as the state schools
In our area were very poor. Both were happy but neither of them did particularly well academically. They weren't high flyers but also
Didn't particularly struggle and just drifted through school.

Would I spend what is probably hundreds of thousands again the answer is definitely not. I would move house to be close to a good state school and support with extra tuition and activities if I thought necessary.

Unless your income is huge or you have had an inheritance or parental help paying school fees is increasingly difficult from earned income.

Also in the area I live a number of independent schools have closed as they are not viable and parents have then had to dash round to find alternatives.

@Alyosha it's probably worth checking each individual school & there does tend to be some flexibility if they want the pupil.

It doesn’t sound as if the OP’s children will be benefitting from contextual offers …

Our school (independent, North London) offers bursaries from 100% for gross household income under £30k down to 5% for gross household income of £80k. Most schools have this info on their website or will readily provide it if you ask.

Haven’t rtft, sorry, but I think in your shoes I’d be looking at state primary and saving for private secondary. There are lots of really superb state primaries in North London.

That’s for 11+ btw.

You won't be able to afford private school for 2 kids in London on £100k unless you live mortgage free. A friend has 2 kids in a decent London prep for which fees start at £6500 per term, so £19,500 per year per child. On £100k you probably have £5k a month after tax. The school fees start at around £3250 per month. So £1750 left for mortgage, bills, food, travel, clothes, and everything else.

And that's at the start. Fees go up and by secondary school are currently around £7,500+ per term in London.

I wouldn't start something you can't finish, because having to take a kid out of a school they love and drop them into a new school where everyone's already made friends is really tough on the child.

We have 2 children at private school and don't have a typical private school income (HUGELY lower than yours!) and we have -

help from grandparents (maybe 50%)
a very small house with no frills
no cars
state school for primary
generally modest lifestyle

You honestly don't need to pay out for private primaries. If you live near a grammar school, you could throw some money at tutoring in year 6, and avoid private fees ever if they're bright enough to get in, and to be honest, you'll probably need some tutoring for entrance exams for private secondaries anyway.

My children went state for primary, and comparing them now to their classmates, many of whom went to very academic/competitive private prep schools, there has been ZERO difference in attainment, even on day 1. There was no "catching up" involved. About 50/50 state/private in their classes for primary.

Oh the only thing mine couldn't do when they started was hockey! Sport is pretty thin at state primaries, esp. in London.

Save your money. Depending on where you live in London, you may well have amazig primaries by you (we did), and you'll find that a good chunk of those kids will be going private for secondary. When we lived in London there were families with BEWILDERING amounts of money, and they were all state for primary/indie for secondary.

I would absolutely NOT count on bursaries or scholarships. You earn far too much.

@mewkins any old private secondary school in London typically does very well with its GCSEs/A levels/Uni entry vs. equivalent state intakes (i.e. grammar school). There are some exceptions to that obviously.

Not planning on private primary to be clear! DH and I both went to state primary schools.

@naaaahhh Think we will do this. Do you mean the maintenance loan or the fee element? Do you really have to pay the fees up front these days for Uni?

@FredaFedUpBigTime I'm not sure what your saying really, I think it's in private schools' interests to get the middle classes back; they'll have few political defenders next time a government comes after their charitable status.

@LiterallyKnowsBest definitely not, DH & I went to uni, so did our parents. So did my grandma!

@SSOYS definitely not doing it for primary. Great state secondaries near us too - even a rare boys' comp that has great results.

Overall, 20 or 10 years ago, you could plausibly scrape together enough to send children private (not public, and this was definitely a privileged set nonetheless; I'm talking relatively). Even at SPGS, a lot of parents were intelligentsia and Very Interesting Artsy People, but now it's mainly oligarchs and Fathers In Oil. Even the privileged, comfortable middle class have been priced out.

I worked as a private tutor and ended up specialising in a lot of West London 11+ and 13+. Even over the time I was working, the demographics of parents changed so much in terms of wealth and entitlement. (ps. if you did want to try the SPS, route which is not a million miles away from Latymer, you can get a lot of resources from the Galore Park website to get you through their ISEB exams).

On the opposite end, I also did a lot of UCAS and Oxbridge for underrepresented backgrounds - tale of two cities, I can tell you! Oxford in particular is doing a lot of work to improve access, and both universities have finally cottoned on to the fact that something had to change. A lot of Russell groups have already been taking schools attended into account for a decade or so (so 9 A*s from St Paul's is not necessarily valued higher than 5 As and 4 Bs from a comprehensive).

At the end of the day, the single largest predictor of student attainment is the attitude of parents. I've seen the latch-key children of millionaires fail abysmally at school because all they really wanted was a parent to show some interest, and children on Pupil Premium who far exceeded statistics and expectations to get into Oxbridge (or any other good university, and be very happy!). If parents are engaged, encouraging, positive and pro-active, that's the most important thing - happy, supported kids with good boundaries.

A lot of PPs are right to point out that private schools just aren't what they used to be. While they still are massively overrepresented in top universities, it's no longer a guarantee that you can buy a place by paying for schooling.

Our net income after school fees, mortgage, groceries, council tax etc. would be pretty low
Do you realise that for lots of people, there is nothing left after those costs (without school fees)? That’s not your ‘net income’; that’s ‘what’s left after spending’.

most people these days are even more wealthy than I & DH.
Pahahahahahha. Yeah. Okay.

In relation to your actual concern though, I think you’re overthinking this. If you live in London, you’re surrounded by excellent state schools (and they’re excellent, btw, as so much more funding gets ploughed into them than state schools in other parts of the country); museums, galleries, theatres etc that can continue to enhance your children’s education; and lots of large companies that will offer internships etc when your children are older.

The statistics about private school students / university / jobs etc aren’t quite so simple as you’ve presented them here. Those people are not successful just because of private school: they’re successful because of the values instilled in them by parents who choose private schools; because of contacts; and, actually, because of entitlement (which - frustratingly to those of us without it - can actually have a really positive impact). Your children will be fine, wherever they go to school, because you will make sure of it.

@MsJaneAusten have you missed the many, many comments where I have said how wealthy I feel we are? But OK. If you read the context of the other comment you will see it relates to those in private schools...

What is it with MN...half of you taking great delight in telling me how wealthy I am and stop complaining the other half taking great delight in telling me how dreadfully strained my circumstances are given we live in London and how that private school is totally out of reach.

@MsJaneAusten sure my kids will be fine. But actually private schools do (did?) offer something extra; they did better than grammar schools in London, which given how selective London grammars are is saying something.

[quote Alyosha]@mewkins any old private secondary school in London typically does very well with its GCSEs/A levels/Uni entry vs. equivalent state intakes (i.e. grammar school). There are some exceptions to that obviously.

Not planning on private primary to be clear! DH and I both went to state primary schools.

@naaaahhh Think we will do this. Do you mean the maintenance loan or the fee element? Do you really have to pay the fees up front these days for Uni?

@FredaFedUpBigTime I'm not sure what your saying really, I think it's in private schools' interests to get the middle classes back; they'll have few political defenders next time a government comes after their charitable status.

@LiterallyKnowsBest definitely not, DH & I went to uni, so did our parents. So did my grandma!

@SSOYS definitely not doing it for primary. Great state secondaries near us too - even a rare boys' comp that has great results.[/quote]
Sure, but results aren't the only thing you should be looking at. You should really consider your kids, their personalities and learning style, not just how much you pay. As lots of people have said on this thread, most children will thrive in any good state school. Some even do better. When people look at which school they would prefer their kid to go to they don't just look at the results table, or else there would be no reason for open days.

You are definitely privileged, just the fact you own a house in London, have a bank of mum and dad and went to private school when you was younger. You're definitely more privileged than 99% of people. Anyone saying otherwise is jealous. However London is the home of multi-millionaires and billionaire's, it's the place of the 1% of the 1%. So even though you are very privileged it's still not enough for somewhere like London. Again go anywhere else in the UK heck anywhere else in the WORLD. And you'll be fine. But London is in its own bubble. It's not real life nor sustainable imo.

@Alyosha - did you miss the bit where despite me living in totally different financial situation to you, I did try to offer some reassuring advice? You’re incredibly privileged. This is a good thing for you and your children.

I think it's in private schools' interests to get the middle classes back; they'll have few political defenders next time a government comes after their charitable status.

Private schools aren't struggling to fill their places though, are they? Plenty of people can afford them, those people are just better off than you. It has always been the case that most people cannot afford private schools and it's never been an issue for them before.

What you're saying is that you think you are entitled to educate your children at private schools, just because you're middle class and went to one yourself.

You feel entitled to be part of the target market for private schools, and now feel aggrieved that they get sufficient business from wealthy people so they don't actually need your kids to make up the numbers.

@mewkins learning styles don't exist. The acceptance of this in some parts of the state sector is what makes me think state education will continue its upwards trajectory!

I was seriously considering moving to Wembley to be in the catchment of Michaela school. However, too far away from our jobs, family and friends and we have a lot of good state secondaries near us.

@Pinkrose1111 we're privileged even for London!

@MsJaneAusten struggling to see what your point is, I know I'm very privileged, I've said so in basically every post.

@CSJobseeker That's not really what I was saying - I have no doubt the best schools will never have an issue filling their places, there's global demand. But if the sector loses more support, they will lose charitable status which will force many smaller schools and schools out of London to close. We may end up with a very continental situation, where private schools are very rare and only for the elite or for those kids who cannot cope in mainstream education. And they are losing political support - bit of an issue if journalists don't support you & MPs can't afford it either.

I wouldn't say I feel entitled - this entire thread is about how I know I can't afford it and asking whether there are any ways in which I can.

But yes, I do feel aggrieved that the private schools we attended are sending me and my husband begging letters while being completely out of our reach.

Like I said your definitley privileged, but not enough for a private school in london, I'm afraid. Me and my partner made about £200k between us precovid, now it's about £130k and we still couldn't comfortably have afforded to send our child to private school in London, it's ridiculous, now we're looking at further out and it's soooo much more affordable.

Haven't read to the end of the thread but you sound incredibly naïve @Alyosha . Your comments like 'Private schooling is a luxury item so I suppose it makes sense that they would expect you to sell up to afford it', yes it is luxury, very very luxury. Not taking into account things like student loans ending, being able to save from them starting primary to going to secondary etc.
You don't sound willing to make any sacrifices to your lifestyle to be able to afford private school fees, you just want it to be handed to you on a plate 'because your parents gave you it'.
Surely you considered this before having your second child?