Do private schools give bursaries/scholarships to parents with decent salaries?

[Alyosha]

I feel certain that the answer to this will be "no" but wanted to check.

We have two DS, 3 and 3 months. We both have good jobs, joint salary is over £100k, very comfortable and we have no complaints about our standard of living. We live in London, where private school fees seem to have gone absolutely nuts. I went to SHHS which was £9k pa by time I left in 2007; so very expensive but would be just about affordable for me & DH for 2 DCs. Occasionally they send me a begging letter asking me to donate for their fund to build a world class music centre...can't say I'm too motivated to donate now their fees are pushing £20k pa.

I can't see any way that we could afford school fees for both boys in 2- 3 year's time even with our good incomes. But looking at the support available it's only if you're earning under £80k. But there's no way I would have thought a family jointly earning £80k could afford £20k in school fees for 2 children (£40k net a year!) with mortgage, council tax, utilities, groceries etc.

So our only option would be a scholarship, but most scholarships seem to be 20% max off fees, which doesn't make them affordable, especially not long term. Is there anywhere that has substantial fee remission for a scholarship in commuting distance of North London, either primary or secondary?

This is of course assuming the DCs would even get scholarships, which I realise is a tall order!

@Alyosha use the advantage of the private education you had to get a career/job that pays well enough to afford the life you want for your kids

If you can't do this then ...... sorry what was the benefit of you going to private school?

(Personally I think you need to make some sacrifices somewhere eg downsize, move further out etc)

I was going off websites - I think because I assume that in order to have an orchestra you need a lot of kids learning instruments to a high level, which seems unlikely given the demographics of where I live. It's expensive to learn an instrument, in both time and money. And it requires a lot of support from a dedicated teacher(s) to make it happen, rehearsal time etc, it's a big commitment.

From a quick review, it looks like Walthamstow School for Girls has the best provision (if only there was a boys' equivalent - it looks a great school). Some small ensembles but no orchestra at Walthamstow Academy. Can't see anything on Willowfield's website about music at all. Or Holy Family.

My eldest is state educated and plays a woodwind instrument in council orchestras to a high level. Tuition has been fantastic via state provision. No complaints here! I am sure it would be just as good if he in a private school. But ultimately it's what you put in to it that determines what you get out of it. Bright children will achieve their potential whether in a state or private education.

I don't think private schools tend to hand out large bursaries to families just because they can't afford the fees. Your child has to be something really special before many of these schools will consider any funding. Your child really has to bring something to the school.

He'll be fluent in Russian, isn't that enough

@Alyosha

I was going off websites - I think because I assume that in order to have an orchestra you need a lot of kids learning instruments to a high level, which seems unlikely given the demographics of where I live. It's expensive to learn an instrument, in both time and money. And it requires a lot of support from a dedicated teacher(s) to make it happen, rehearsal time etc, it's a big commitment.

From a quick review, it looks like Walthamstow School for Girls has the best provision (if only there was a boys' equivalent - it looks a great school). Some small ensembles but no orchestra at Walthamstow Academy. Can't see anything on Willowfield's website about music at all. Or Holy Family.

You don t yet know if your ds have any interest in playing an instrument

Maybe one is superb in ballet and gets into Royal ballet school

Maybe the other is dyslexic and needs a completely different school

Keep options open
If private is a "thing" for you start saving now
If you don't use it for fees it can be a flat deposit fir them

Before you spend 10s of thousands on private school fees, maybe think about whether the boys would prefer you to buy them say half a house each?

[quote naaaahhh]@EstoPerpetua welcome back!
My DN was at Eton and they were brilliant at supporting him when he decided to go to art school instead of down a more academic route.[/quote]
That sounds absolutely typical of the school, @naaaahhh

I hope your DN is thriving!

Eton will bend over backwards to support boys to play to their strengths - including all kinds of completely (apparently) hare-brained schemes which have nothing at all to do with their academic studies. The thing I most loved about the school was that they knew the boys so well that they were more interested in ensuring a good fit post-sixth-form than they were in ensuring Oxbridge entrance (don't want to say too much, but my DC1, who would have sailed into Oxbridge regardless - and is there now - is a boy who would have fared very much less well as a human being in a less holistic and caring environment).

I am in Scotland and DH and I have a combined income of just over £100k. We are comfortable at the moment but could not afford private school. Fees here are probably around £13-15k per annum for most private schools.

We live in a village where there is a private school so a large proportion of kids go there. Parents who clearly cannot afford it strive for it and at times I have felt ashamed that we can’t.

We aren’t willing to change our lifestyle and that’s what it comes down to. I mean we don’t live extravagantly - my kids haven’t even been abroad. But we live in a detached home in a nice area, we have two cars (not new and one is ancient!) and we don’t have to be too careful with our money day to day.

To afford private school for 2 x DC we would need to downsize, probably have one car, really restrict holidays and would have to seriously budget for every area of our lives.

Do I want to do that? No I dont. I want my children to have a good quality of life too. It’s all about balance.

So, OP I couldn’t comfortably afford private school either on a similar salary without making huge sacrifices - and making those sacrifices would make our DC stand out because the people who attend these schools are generally loaded in our area. We could maybe stretch to the fees at a push but then we wouldn’t be able to afford all of the other extracurricular stuff that goes with it

I think it's about 60k a year you need to be earning, or less, to be eligible for a bursary.

Either start saving or work out how to get your DC into a decent state school. It can be done!

It sounds as if you need to visit some state secondaries and see what they are really like, to find out if you do need to make serious lifestyle changes asap. For what it’s worth, where we are in a fancy bit of south London and knowing parents in the local privates and the well regarded states, I’ve seen lots go through the system and come out pretty much just as you’d expect given their levels of family support and how they were going into both systems. I know a few parents who wonder what they paid for now their kids are all at the same unis/doing the same jobs. But I have also seen parents who worried the whole way that they should have paid, panicking when something wasn’t up to scratch with the school, worrying their friends’ privately educated kids were getting ahead… it looks a very exhausting way to exist. I know a few who moved to private along the way after much heartache. If you’re going to feel like that, always wondering if you’ve let your kids down, I’d start saving/moving. It sounds to me from the objections you’ve raised that you might not be able to accept that state was really good enough on an emotional level, however many logical arguments to the contrary you’re presented with.

@Alyosha

I was going off websites - I think because I assume that in order to have an orchestra you need a lot of kids learning instruments to a high level, which seems unlikely given the demographics of where I live. It's expensive to learn an instrument, in both time and money. And it requires a lot of support from a dedicated teacher(s) to make it happen, rehearsal time etc, it's a big commitment.

From a quick review, it looks like Walthamstow School for Girls has the best provision (if only there was a boys' equivalent - it looks a great school). Some small ensembles but no orchestra at Walthamstow Academy. Can't see anything on Willowfield's website about music at all. Or Holy Family.

I’m not sure you know much about state primaries either then!

They all learn an instrument. Every child in DS’s not-particularly-sought-after state primary learns violin from P1, and most learn a second instrument from P3. The instruments are loaned. Tuition is over lunch and after school. And free. So there are plenty of kids in the local secondary who play an instrument to a decent standard.

Look up London Music Masters, they provide the instruments and tuition.

@Alyosha I don't know if you ignored my post or just missed it - but given the advantage you had by going fo private school - why are you in a position where you can't afford the fees for your own children?

We did it. Fees paid out of income with an occasional dip into savings. Combined income under £100k. Now the boys are finished we feel absolutely flush (and now paying down the mortgage and bolstering our pensions).

Tbh you need to cut your cloth according to what is important- for us it was prioritising their education. No foreign holidays, designer handbags and clothes, expensive hobbies and a well old second hand car (15 years buy the time it finally died and was a Vauxhall not a German brand or SUV).

@chopc the OP can answer for herself of course, but I would say there are two answers to that question. The first is that private school fees are now comparatively higher than they used to be (hence this thread, which is essentially talking about the fact that a profession like accountant, GP, solicitor which could once have afforded private school fees out of salary would now struggle to do so). The second answer is that many people who choose private education (me included) do not do so for future income. They also don't necessarily judge their own 'success' in terms of their own income. I want my DC to basically have a fabulous time at school - to be inspired/challenged/excited by their lessons and teachers, to do a really broad range of sports and arts activities, to have lots of other extra curricular opportunities, and to basically spend a few years in a great place having a brilliant time - for its own sake, not because of what it might lead onto in terms of university entrance. They might end up earning loads of money and sending their own DC to private school - or they might not. As long as they end up pursuing something they are interested in and happy doing, I will judge that a 'success'. Whatever they end up doing, they will always have had 7 fantastic years at school.

[quote impasto]@chopc the OP can answer for herself of course, but I would say there are two answers to that question. The first is that private school fees are now comparatively higher than they used to be (hence this thread, which is essentially talking about the fact that a profession like accountant, GP, solicitor which could once have afforded private school fees out of salary would now struggle to do so). The second answer is that many people who choose private education (me included) do not do so for future income. They also don't necessarily judge their own 'success' in terms of their own income. I want my DC to basically have a fabulous time at school - to be inspired/challenged/excited by their lessons and teachers, to do a really broad range of sports and arts activities, to have lots of other extra curricular opportunities, and to basically spend a few years in a great place having a brilliant time - for its own sake, not because of what it might lead onto in terms of university entrance. They might end up earning loads of money and sending their own DC to private school - or they might not. As long as they end up pursuing something they are interested in and happy doing, I will judge that a 'success'. Whatever they end up doing, they will always have had 7 fantastic years at school.[/quote]
I think lots of people here are basing this decision on what it was like when they were at school though. I know I can't afford private school but moved out of London to a place with great schools. My dd goes to an excellent girls' school and is having a great time. They are pushing her academically and she has joined lots of clubs and made lots of friends. You don't necessarily have to pay for the experience. State schools have become something completely different from when I was growing up in London in the 80s and 90s. The op is insistent she knows best (no music provision etc) and some of us are merely pointing out that her opinions are based on ideas from 20+ years ago.

No, you're right, and I totally agree with you that the OP's views of state schools are v outdated. And I also agree that kids can have a great time in state schools. I was just responding to the idea that if you can't afford to send your child to private school, then your own private education was a waste of time/money.

@impasto
But do you think your children will feel like the OP does if they can’t send their own children to private school. If they have had such a brilliant time won’t they feel real angst if they can’t do the same?
The list of professions that can afford it is so limited now (and so much foreign money in terms of Russian, Chinese DC which starts the best facilities arms race).

Ds1 currently at his Russian lesson (no oil wealth here sadly) - so will reply to all once I'm at a keyboard.

But to quickly say - @impasto has it mostly right re my reasons for wanting private school. I'd add that state education is subject to the whims of government and I want the option of opting out if things deteriorate in the future. Right now I'm pleased with the ideological direction of travel in state schools. If Michaela could open a walthamstow branch I'd definitely choose that!

@mewkins you seem very insistent that all state schools have good music provision - I'm not sure why that would have changed so much in the 14 years since I left school given funding has declined so much. Did the govt. put money specifically into this? Anyone know?

@Storminamu yes this is the big consideration. It's so much money we could use elsewhere. For now it's about keeping options open

@impasto you are absolutely right and one shouldn't judge one's success by one's earning capacity. I send my kids to private schools of course for the experience but also I believe that a great education is the best gift you can give your kids and to me that was in a British private school. It's not about the academics but about all else. However i will think they have been successful if they have the ability to have their lifestyle of choice.

@chopc to answer you directly, I'm pleased with my quality of life. I'm genuinely happy. I want my kids to have the choices I had. Wealth means the freedom to choose; the knowledge there's a cushion there for you to try things out.

And as impasto pointed out, I could probably afford it if price rises had been in line with inflation.

[quote Alyosha]@mewkins you seem very insistent that all state schools have good music provision - I'm not sure why that would have changed so much in the 14 years since I left school given funding has declined so much. Did the govt. put money specifically into this? Anyone know?[/quote]
And you seem insistent that no one outside private school can play a musical instrument or has an opportunity to join an orchestra.

Yes I believe the Arts Council has invested a lot. Why don't you research it? You will find that all London boroughs have a music provision. It was the same when I was at school and also when you were. Schools are usually served by a borough or county music service. It is similar to a private school buying the services of a violin teacher I guess rather than having them as a full time member of staff.

You know best though.

Plan:

Cross your fingers your kids are bright

Move to Kent

Send them to Cranbrook