No evidence of baseline or progress - what are the standard tests in infants?

[IncessantNameChanger]

I have just done a SEN tribunal and the school are saying my dd has made great progress but they haven't done any assessments on her due to covid. No phonics nothing.

My dd has ASD and I want to hire a infant school teacher to baseline her on these standard tests before I think about hiring a private EP.

School also also say she has no social communication issues so now I am doubting myself as without that she cant have ASD as it's one of the tirades.

I want do the phonics screen now before its repeated in July to see if there is progress but no idea what the other standard tests are eg for maths?

Thanks

What year is she in? Traditionally infants do K1 SATS but these are being phased out with a new baseline assessment in reception taking their place and nothing at the end of K1. Depending on what year your daughter is in, it will impact how the school are assessing her.

Year two thanks. I think she should had her phonics screen and a gl??? For numeracy.

The phonics screen is simple to carry out. You wouldn't need to hire a teacher but could do it yourself.

There is no standardised assessment for maths as such, at least not used in infants in normal course. Your school might typically do an assessment but don't have to. EPs do have assessments.

Most assessment is informal and formative. This means it takes place at the same time as teaching. For example, when teaching the two times table, teachers should use questioning to find out which children securely know their key facts. Therefore your child will have been assessed. Every single day.

Has your daughter been diagnosed with ASD? School may say that she is not presenting with social communication difficulties, but this doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have ASD.

Yes she was diagnosed with ASD. The senco said she was bang on target but the end of year report said working towards in nearly all areas. She is a school refuser but gets through the door with a lot of screaming and being dragged. So the hearing was about her ASD an anxiety. However the judge wasmt interested as her attendance is high and there is no proof or not making progress ( but no proof she is either). So basically I'm left with no idea of if she two years behind or a term behind and whatever happens at the door going under official radar as she is on the register. No socail communication difficulties ever seen but diagnosed via camhs. Camhs said even though school ad said "nothing to see here" they then listed her being stubborn, reluctant, rigid and not willing to do as told so that was all noted by the paediatrician and he was convinced they was seeing it but not recognising it.

School are shocked by her diagnosis as was I but her brothers are in SEN school so it's not a shock really. She is viewed as a bright but stubborn child with a strong will. I'm feeling a bit lost at what to do next. She had Portage and feet funding and passed a SEN nursery panel but the nursery was full so then nothing happened beyound 3 years old and she falls apart a little bit more every month.

The phonics screening check for year 1s was cancelled in the summer so the school won't have a " statutory" assessment but I would be surprised if they hadn't conducted an internal version. However, the school do need to conduct the statutory screening check with the current yr 2s in the autumn 2 term ( so before Xmas.)

@spanieleyes thank you for this. I had a Google and thought they had to do the phonics screening in July, but if its before Christmas that's fantastic news

Has she been able to verbalise what she hates about school?

I would suggest focusing on the school anxiety rather than academic attainment.

Do you have an aim? Eg do you want her to get an SEN school place? I'm not sure why you had a hearing.

No she cant verbalize why she doesnt want to go in.

The hearing was to get her assessed by OT and EP. OT has already assessed her but not for education and it was just a OT assistant. So she has OT needs but because not for education there are no recommendations

I could go private but the school dismissed the OT report for health so it has to come via the SEN education route.

A baseline assessment is supposed to be done in reception when children first start. There is no point ‘baselining’ children that have been in school for a while because the whole point is to see where they’re at when they start school so that progress can be measured against that. But there is a new baseline screening that is coming in and so not all schools will be doing it at this stage, nor would a current Y2 be expected to have one from reception.

Phonics screening is not to show progress, which is what you seem to want it for. It is supposed to be done at the end of year one, and only those children that didn’t pass are supposed to take it again in year two. Usually Y2s that need to take it again will do it in the summer when the year 1s are doing it for the first time. It’s only been done by some schools in autumn because of covid, and any screenings done this year were done using previous year’s papers. The government didn’t release a new one for this year. I really wouldn’t recommend doing it yourself as although it’s simple to administer, you do need to know what you’re doing to get an accurate result.

Apart from internal assessments that the school will use for their own records, there isn’t a national test for numeracy until the end of year 2 SATs.

Have you been able to see your dds reading levels go up? You can ask the school to see evidence of progress in the work your dd produces.

Yes she has gone up reading bands and was on the band she should have been at the end of year 1. But then the end of year report said working towards target. Not meeting target. School reassure me she is fine but so did her brothers school when he still failed pho ics screening in year 2 and turned out to be a year behind. I found that out because he was level 3c at the end of year four but I have nothing for my dd.

Difficult to know after 2 years of covid disruption. However, she is working towards at the end of year 1, so not still on eyfs, which would indicate not on ks1 curriculum. Most children were are at least 1 term behind at the end of last year.

Yes covid is clouding it as the school did say everyone is behind atm due to school closures.

Lots of children will be ‘working towards’ their expectations, that is normal and doesn’t automatically indicate SEN. We would expect there to be children in every class that are ‘working towards’, especially at this time when current year 2’s have never had a full year at school.

What is it like when you are doing work with your dd? Did she manage the work that she was given during lockdown or did she find it hard?

What is it that makes you disbelieve the school when they say she is fine? If she has had an assessment by an OT who has said her extra needs aren’t educational, what support would you like the school to put in place?

Going back to your OP now, it wouldn't be much use getting a primary teacher to assess her. EPs have access to assessments that teachers don't. Your child's school have said that she was working towards year 1, which means she is a term or two behind. This is normal and not an indication of special needs. If that gap increases, you should expect to be told. You need to focus more on her emotional needs and the school refusal, not on academic progress. She needs to feel good about school.

She has sen, that was accepted by the LA and school so no doubts at all on that front.

The OT was done from the point of health so no recommendations for school as it was never for their eyes, at least that what the OT team has told me.

I need proof of progress. I have another son who was in mainstream and told was on track but ended up in SEN school. So faith is not going to cut it this time round. It's not this schools fault but it like asking you to put your hand in a lions mouth after one previously bit your hand off. My issue but it is what is.

Dd is school refusing and has ASD so I want to see the entire picture transparently. Not optinions on that whole picture iykwim? School have said dd has no socail communication issues but if you know anything about ASD, you csnt have ASD without that triad. So that's another thing that makes me doubt the bigger picture.

If everything really is totally fine then its impossible that she has ASD. If she genuinely had no socail communication issues then she simply is not Autistic. But I dont think think the paediatrician was wrong. Things are going under the radar. Again I appreciate the teacher might miss things but it's my daughter so I need to ask the questions as it's in her best interests. If someone could prove she was only a term or two behind I would know where she is today so I can keep a eye if she falls further behind.

Talk to the senco. Explain your concerns and the reasons behind them. They are understandable but you seem fixated on the wrong thing. The biggest concern is the school refusal. She is refusing for a reason.
I understand that you don't know what it is, but the senco needs to understand that.

As for social communication difficulties, a child absolutely can have asd and display no difficulties with social communication. This is what masking is. It is incredibly common with girls with asd. The child has social communication difficulties but learns to pretend well enough that she fits in. It can be exhausting. It may even be the reason for the school refusal as it's such hard work.

If you google "year 1 curriculum," you can see the list of things she should be able to do by the end of year 1 in reading, writing and maths. The reading one is pretty vague, but the writing and maths ones would give you a guide that you could use to check against. This might be a way to assuage your, understandable, worry for her academic progress.

The phonics screening check is online as in there are copies of past papers.
Same with the ks1 sats.

The refusal has been going on for 18 months but because she is on the register, all the screaming crying and being manhandled didnt cut it with the judge. The judge asked me why and I simply dont know hence asking the assessment as the EP would be called in and hopefully OT.

She has been going in ok for two weeks but she will fall apart after half term almost certainly.

If she screams and crystals and gets pulled in by wrist but it all happens before 9am her attendance will always be excellent. But no one knows why she does it. It's not a sustainable answer ( and I personally hate her being pulled in).

It’s still unclear what you were aiming to achieve out of the tribunal?

What support do you think your dd needs that isn’t currently being provided?

What will evidence of her progress, or her lack of progress, achieve?

@IncessantNameChanger

Year two thanks. I think she should had her phonics screen and a gl??? For numeracy.

Phonics test is usually done in year 1 - end of year 1. Ask your see all her assessments? That will have to have done some assessment from March 2021 until present

Dont worry I know exactly what I want to achieve from tribunal. It's not my first and I have done a lot of them. Tribunal has been and gone now so unless they agree to asses her it's in the past. I am waiting for the judges ruling.

I want a EP from the LA to asses her.

I want a OT to assess her from the pov of education.

People can ask me if I know why she is anxious or if she has sensory issues or behavioural issues or socail issues. No one is more qualified to say then a EP and salt. You need a PhD to be a EP for my LA. I know tonnes about SEN, but I would be massively delusional if I could do a better job then them.

@takingonestepatatime the school have confirmed today there was no phonics screening but they will screen her for me know and do some sort of assessment for numeracy as they they agree there is no proof of her NC levels.

It's in everyones interests for her to be bang on target. But not every child is.

I take it the tribunal was for refusal to assess?

If your appeal is upheld the LA must seek advice from
"a) the child's parents or the young person;
b) educational advice (usually from the head teacher or principal);
c) medical advice and information from a health care professional;
d) psychological advice and information from an educational psychologist;
e) advice and information in relation to social care;
f) advice and information from any other person the local authority thinks appropriate;
g) where the child or young person is in or beyond year 9, advice and information in relation to provision to assist the child or young person in preparation for adulthood and independent living; and
h) advice and information from any person the child's parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from."
SEN regs 6(1)

H can include OT, SALT and a psychiatrist &/or CP. In this case I wouldn't hire a teacher to assess, nor an independent EP at this stage. Wait to see if you need to appeal refusal to issue or BFI and then target the assessments you need most.

If your appeal is not upheld is your aim to gather evidence then reapply for an EHCNA? If so, I would go straight to an independent EP rather than hire a teacher.

For SENDIST I would just get independent reports from OT, SALT, EP and/or psychiatrist &/or CP, they are far more detailed, specific and quantified than LA/NHS reports and SENDIST will consider them. It is often reports that win tribunals. If you are eligible for legal aid it can cover the cost of assessments for tribunal. 'Parents in need' can sometimes help fund assessments, too.

Have you looked at IPSEA and SOSSEN's websites? They both have helplines as well.

NC levels don't officially exist any more. Submitting a SAR to the school may help you gather evidence - both of DD's psychological state and of her academic levels.

Also, you could ask MN to move this to the SN boards, there's some knowledgeable posters who can help with tribunals.

I have hired private EP, skt and OT before for brother and it's not cheap so I want to hold back big guns for more worthy appeals. To spend 6k on refusal to assess ( yes it was refusal to assess ) felt mad when the LA has in fact done a ehc assessment before on her.

If it was to quantify a ehcp contents or to move school then yes I would go private.

I have used ipsea before but I might be phoning them and SOSSEN again if I loose this appeal. The judge was asking me what's wrong and what I think her levels are. I told the judge i am qualified to say and guessing is dangerous.

It was a pointless and painful process so I'm gathering myself to get some levels now with a eye on appealing again down the line.

Are the SEN boards still active? Thank you for the input

If the LA have previously undertaken an EHCNA did you not appeal the refusal to issue then?

Or is this a refusal of a reassessment of needs? Although it doesn't sound like it. In which case I wouldn't worry too much whatever the tribunal decision. Instead commission independent reports and appeal BFI next time you have the right of appeal. LA reports are often vague and woolly anyway even when parents ask the LA to go back to the report writers to tighten them up. And, parents often end up appealing the content after a reassessment of need and needing independent reports making.

I really wouldn't bother hiring a teacher, save your money for independent reports which are likely to be much more useful, and submit a SAR. You won't get NC levels though, they no longer exist.

Yes, the SN boards are still active, not as busy as some of the main boards, but then the advice is often more targeted. SN Chat and SN Children are the busiest.