So, Keir Starmer is intending to remove charitable status

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He intends to use the money raised to "shake-up" the State schools.

Has he thought this through - the number of children whose parents just about manage fees, who will then transfer their kids to state schools.

How many? How much will this cost? And how soon can the necessary expansion be effected?

Of course, the really rich will be able to dig deeper into their pockets

@Solotravel

I think it is a good idea too and have DC at private school (that does not have charitable status). One of the reasons they are at private school is because we did not get them in to the local church STATE school that my taxes fund because we don't go to church regularly enough.... how is that fair? A vicar gets to choose who goes to a state school. That needs to end.

Do you live in catchment? You're unlucky not to get into an Anglican school if you do. It must be very oversubscribed.

@VanCleefArpels presumably not from bursary children - is that figure still 1% if all private school pupils?

Lots of independents are already not charities and the percentage that are is declining anyway. I am still not convinced this is much of a game changer for parents or tax revenue that peoole are expecting.
I still think the biggest risk is to SEN provision

Pretty sure Royal School of ballet will be just fine. Might take in a couple of extra Russians to cover it and sorted.

@Placido on a list of priorities of wavering voters in red wall seats the tax arrangements of private schools probably comes in at about 653 😉 so if I were the beleaguered leader of the opposition party I wouldn’t make that my marquee issue at a crucial party conference

It makes no sense at all for profit making private schools to be charities. If their fees become unaffordable, they'll have to take less profit to keep customers.

If some families decide to send DC to state schools, that would be a good thing for those schools.

Weathly overseas parents would still send their DC. It's not a financial decision.

I'm interested to see how this plays out politically. From a financial perspective, it doesn't seemingly add much to government coffers.

Over half the kids at my son's school are on bursaries of some sort and others on scholarships. A move like this would undoubtedly reduce these places, which then places extra burden on the local Outstanding Primary, which is already massively in demand.

We'll already see an increase in fees to cover the higher employer NI for the staff next year.

If the removal of charitable status goes ahead, a extra few thousand per year on fees wouldn't be an immediate issue for us, but it does reduce what we'd be spending elsewhere and that includes donations to charities and extra activities. That's where the damage hits the economy, as the trickle down reduces.

Adding VAT similarly reduces discretionary spend elsewhere.

[quote VanCleefArpels]@Placido on a list of priorities of wavering voters in red wall seats the tax arrangements of private schools probably comes in at about 653 😉 so if I were the beleaguered leader of the opposition party I wouldn’t make that my marquee issue at a crucial party conference[/quote]
I was just thinking this.

Starmer can be out of touch

I agree it's not a big enough issue to make a difference to his election chances though.

@MarshaBradyo - its not 7% as a starting point. Thats 7% of pupils are educated in independents but its more like 6.5% of schools are independent as its about school themselves rather than fees and then at least 25% of those (and ive seen some higher estimates) are already not a charity. So its more 4.8% which is probably a slight over estimate.

But its hard to estimate as each school has wildy different assets

@VanCleefArpels but it is the headlines isn’t it - Bojo is a master at populist paper headlines. The red wall voters aren’t thinking about it the tax per se, they are for sure thinking about equality and their children. And there are lots of them.

[quote Elephantsparade]@MarshaBradyo - its not 7% as a starting point. Thats 7% of pupils are educated in independents but its more like 6.5% of schools are independent as its about school themselves rather than fees and then at least 25% of those (and ive seen some higher estimates) are already not a charity. So its more 4.8% which is probably a slight over estimate.

But its hard to estimate as each school has wildy different assets[/quote]
Ok fair enough

But doesn’t that make it worse? That smaller sum of money - what will the 93% see in reality?

One could break it down to how much extra this is per state student per year

Then add any issues private have and move

@MarshaBradyo but Bojo is not out of touch, he is a very popular populist (despite his dreadful leadership!) so how do you think he is going to play this one ready for re-election. There is no money in the pot - Covid:Brexit - so how he is he going to show his ‘new’ voters that their children matter just as much to him?

It would be disgusting if this included private SEN schools. Most children at my DC's school are paid for by the LA on an EHCP. I would love my DC to be able to go to our local state primary but they are unable to meet his needs.

Will disabled children no longer be able to access education???

(I don't vote Tory)

I don’t think anyone would want specialist schools however they are funded to miss out. Labour tend to want to help kids with extra needs so I think we can relax on that one. The crime is that the Tory gov has cut funding for state support for kids with extra needs. That has to improve.

[quote Placido]@MarshaBradyo but Bojo is not out of touch, he is a very popular populist (despite his dreadful leadership!) so how do you think he is going to play this one ready for re-election. There is no money in the pot - Covid:Brexit - so how he is he going to show his ‘new’ voters that their children matter just as much to him?[/quote]
We’ll see but I’d be surprised if he managed to piss off his voters more than Starmer on this one being the populist he is

I’ll vote for whomever doesn’t pretend a small amount of money from private sector can fix the state sector. New buildings, staff, resources for how much per student?

@MarshaBradyo I dont think it would be a game changing amout. But i think its about whats seen as fair. State schools pay business rates but independents get a rebate due to their charitible status.

Amazing idea. Ban private schools is very much my stance, so any shake-up is welcome.

@MarshaBradyo seems fairly popular on this thread. And it is only a teeny tiny minority that he is pissing off.

Sorry i explained my last posts about business rates badly. I didnt mean state schools dont get relief of funds for it. Just thats its all a bit of a circular funding mess

Mn is a bit if a left wing bubble atm and can be funny about private schools in general.

You pretty much only see threads berating Johnson yet he got a landslide so it doesn’t feel very reflective of public.

The red wall - why did they switch last time?

What were their main concerns

Those making the ‘oh but the state sector would just take over failed privates and keep on all the teachers’ argument

That couldn’t/wouldn’t happen
It’s a bit like saying ‘it doesn’t matter if a landlord gets a house repossessed, no one has to be homeless, the state can just take over’

That’s not how insolvency works, and it’s absolutely not how state education provision works

So if that’s why you favour this policy, back to the drawing board for you

@GreatPotato

It makes no sense at all for profit making private schools to be charities. If their fees become unaffordable, they'll have to take less profit to keep customers.

If some families decide to send DC to state schools, that would be a good thing for those schools.

Weathly overseas parents would still send their DC. It's not a financial decision.

I suppose it depends if he means private schools or public schools 🤷‍♀️

Here we go again with the tall poppy syndrome here in the UK.

So Keir wants to create an educational utopia where all the funds collected from the private schools are pumped back into state. So how exactly is this going to happen? Most parents sending their DC to private are just normal people and if you make it more expensive, they will just jump ship to state. Also, if you are advertising that the govt. is going to be investing in them, they will jump too. Most private schools are struggling to keep open as fees increase and people can't afford it. Many single sex have had to go co-ed to stay afloat. So, KS won't be getting all of this extra money. In fact, he will be spending it bailing out schools who now need to accommodate ex private.

If my school fees go up, I will just move to catchment and get tutors for my DC to stay in the top sets but that should be OK with everyone because I keep hearing that private school parents have miraculous powers and their presence has the ability to turn a school into one with high standards.

The red wall - why did they switch last time?

Brexit & Woke/Identity Politics were likely the two main factors.