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Original poster

Oh I do hate the 11+

54 replies

LemonWeb · 11/09/2021 09:52

The grammar schools are lovely in my area. Lovely schools, excellent results, lots of contented children doing all sorts of art and sport and drama and little disruptive behaviour.

So we let the dc do the 11+. DC3 doing hers this morning as I write this. And the same feeling this time as twice before: I see all these lovely kids being taken up to the school gates by their mums or dads, and I know that most won’t end up at that school. It’s just such a horrible high-stakes thing for children this young, and I know that most of the kids queuing up will have spent some time doing practice and tutoring and the test will have been hanging over them all summer.

I feel so conflicted on this: my elder two are both at selective schools and having a blast, and dc3 wanted to go to the lovely girls’ grammar with the excellent art department so I have let her take the test, but I really wish we didn’t live in a grammar area: it just feels like so much pressure for 10-year-olds, and most of them will come out of the process without a grammar place. I worry that if dc doesn’t pass, she’ll feel a sense of failure whatever I say.

I don’t know what a better system would be other than fully comprehensive and excellent schools everywhere.Confused

OP posts:
BungleandGeorge · 11/09/2021 10:18

You’re very fortunate, a lot of areas don’t have any schools with great results, good behaviour and lots of extra- curricular activities! I don’t believe in grammar schools either but they do seem to be a lot nicer than many schools..

Original poster
LemonWeb · 11/09/2021 10:22

Yes, I agree, that the kids that get places are fortunate to have the choice of those schools, but it’d be much better if we didn’t have to put our 10-year-olds through this, and better if the comprehensives were as good. No easy answers.

OP posts:
Zodlebud · 12/09/2021 08:42

I dislike the fact that grammars these days are less about ability and pretty much all about how much time and money parents have available to tutor their child and how close you live to the school (where house prices are ridiculous because of the schools).

It has generally become a system for the wealthy, once again putting those who would gain the most from a grammar school at a significant disadvantage.

It broke my heart to see one of my DDs friends who had been tutored from year 4, doing three hours a day, six days a week over the summer holidays before Y6 not pass. The parents blamed the pressure she was under (but didn’t give her the iPhone she had been promised if she passed).

I do agree with the concept of grammar schools though. Just detest the broken system that favours the rich, and the fact that secondary moderns where you end up if you don’t pass are often second rate.

MoiraNotRuby · 12/09/2021 08:47

I agree with you. Its a terrible system and very unfair basically having two tiers of quality. And I say that with two DC at grammar because if you live in a grammar area what else are you going to do... You can't opt out of the whole system.

whiteroseredrose · 12/09/2021 09:29

It is a lot of stress nowadays.

In my day we all took the exam in the school hall and then forgot about it.

I don't know where you live, but here we have some great schools for those that don't pass.

HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime · 12/09/2021 09:34

I wish we lived in a grammar school area, Dd is very bright we tried for the Gdst girls school in our nearest city and she got in, but no bursarys were given out for Yr 7s this year in order to support girls already at the school. DD has settled in well at her new High school with lots of friends from her Primary but I can't help but think how well she would have thrived in the other school with all the extras they offer.

DietrichandDiMaggio · 12/09/2021 09:36

@LemonWeb

Yes, I agree, that the kids that get places are fortunate to have the choice of those schools, but it’d be much better if we didn’t have to put our 10-year-olds through this, and better if the comprehensives were as good. No easy answers.
I don’t know what a better system would be other than fully comprehensive and excellent schools everywhere

So you do know a better system -fully comprehensive. The reason the non-grammars are not as good as grammars is because there are grammars.

HighTee · 12/09/2021 09:43

I honestly think I would have moved to a non grammar area if I thought my dc would not pass the exam. Embarrassing though that is to say.

I’m a teacher and I can’t imagine being in a system like this where the dc are creamed off like this. Our secondary has mixed ability teaching as we found that without the more able children lessons like English were like pulling teeth. You need those children in a lesson to speak up and generate ideas and discussions which helps the less able understand.

cansu · 12/09/2021 09:49

You have said yourself what the alternative is. The conservatives however support an unfair and divisive system probably because if their kids do fail to get in they can afford to pay for private education.grammars provide a state version of private school. This is why the well off love them. It offers an opportunity to be apart from the riff raff for free!

Cattitudes · 12/09/2021 09:51

Not passing can be positive too. The confidence one of mine has gained from being at the top of a (non) grammar school is immense. A slightly later developer, favouring humanities, was just not suited to the 11 plus. With a little more targeted support, which is harder to achieve at a grammar school, they are flying. We are lucky that most of the options are good, so it is different if the grammar school is the only good option. They all do the same GCSEs and the value placed on a child who is a near miss with good SATs in a non grammar school means they are well looked after.

MargosKaftan · 12/09/2021 09:53

I live in an 11+ area but thankfully the test is done at primary school, rather than the big deal of being taken elsewhere, and we have a good "plan b" school in our town.

Dc1 has started at a grammar this year and I'm not convinced dc2 will pass. I'm sort of grateful they are single sex schools so I dont have to face the "why aren't I going to the same school as my brother?" conversation. Its tough.

That said, our non-grammars do seem to try to compete with them for extra curricular activities and ambition beyond just grades st GCSE, it sounds like in your area the comps are using the existence of grammars locally as an excuse.

TeenMinusTests · 12/09/2021 09:53

I'm glad I live in Hants.

DietrichandDiMaggio · 12/09/2021 09:59

That said, our non-grammars do seem to try to compete with them for extra curricular activities and ambition beyond just grades st GCSE, it sounds like in your area the comps are using the existence of grammars locally as an excuse.

Non-grammars in a grammar area are not comprehensives.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 12/09/2021 10:00

We deliberately moved to a non selective area as we knew our dyslexic DD would have little chance of passing and the stress wouldn't be good for her.

The school she is most likely to go may not have stellar results, just average... but does have a wide ranging vocational and academic curriculum, a range of sports teams and other extra curricular activities.

The school she would have most likely have been allocated (not applied for) is rated inadequate by ofsted, and only fills half if it spaces each year. Less than a mile from two grammar schools.

Grammar schools are only good for the children that get to go to them.

whiteroseredrose · 12/09/2021 10:07

Like Cattitudes my DD's friend absolutely thrived at the local non Grammar. She was in top sets where they had them and did brilliantly. She is now doing English at a Russell Group Uni.

Being a High School in a Grammar area doesn't mean that your pupils can't fly too.

AtLeastPretendToCare · 12/09/2021 10:10

DH is keen to move to a grammar school area. I’m unconvinced. On paper our kids are bright and would be top 10-20% at least. So for this region should get to grammars. But I do think it is tremendous pressure on one exam. Even the brightest child can have an off day and underperform. Apparently I am being “too negative” but there doesn’t seem much in a way of plan b options that would suit them.

whiteroseredrose · 12/09/2021 10:12

Also agree with Cansu though.

DD went to a girl's grammar and one of the joys was escaping the disruptive kids from primary school.

As a 'sensible and mature' girl she was always placed next to the disruptive boys, which she found really annoying.

Hoppinggreen · 12/09/2021 10:14

It’s one exam on one day and not really a great assessment of a child’s abilities
I know very bright children perform badly on the day and less bright children perform well simply because they are really good at exams.
We aren’t in a Grammar area as such, although there are some in the next town so DD did take the exam and get a place. The facilities at the Grammar she was offered are actually no better than the ones at our local Comp though.

Theresomethingaboutdairy · 12/09/2021 10:14

I agree with you OP. I have two already at Grammar and my third dc took the Kent Test last week. She already feels as though she isn’t as clever as her siblings. It’s so sad. I worry about her mental health if she doesn’t pass. 10 is far too young to be branded a failure. I feel guilty too as I have never really pushed the tuition. She has done an hour per week since year 5 and a week of summer school in the holiday but we also had a family holiday and she worked for a week on a farm so I didn’t prioritise the 11+, which I think may have been a mistake.

Mumdiva99 · 12/09/2021 10:17

All children are entitled to an excellent education. For those who also believe this you can help by lobbying MP's over school funding, volunteering as school governors to support the schools in your area, vote the 'right' way at elections to ensure schools are a priority and serve all children equally (your opinion on what this structure is may differ from someone else's).

RampantIvy · 12/09/2021 10:20

We have no grammar schools or 11+ in my county, and I am very glad of it.

I don’t believe in grammar schools either but they do seem to be a lot nicer than many schools.

That's because they cream off the academically able and engaged pupils. It isn't difficult to work that out.

Sweetsweetsoul · 13/09/2021 12:42

I feel the same OP. My second child is about to sit the 11+. Older sibling already at the school which makes it seem so much more pressured. I wake up every night panicking about how it’ll affect self esteem etc if he fails. I feel so guilty for putting him through it even though he doesn’t seem too worried about it. Urgh. I cannot wait for it to be over!

The school itself is great and is the nearest school to us - it’s just the bloody test that’s the problem.

Mrsfrumble · 14/09/2021 14:35

Non-grammars in a grammar area are not comprehensives.

I’m interested in why you think this @DietrichandDiMaggio. Surely they will still teach a range of abilities, which is what comprehensives are supposed to do because, as others have pointed out on this thread, not every academically able child will pass or even sit the 11+, even in an 11+ area.

RampantIvy · 14/09/2021 16:30

I’m interested in why you think this @DietrichandDiMaggio. Surely they will still teach a range of abilities,

But not the full range, just up to the cut off point for the 11+.

Bonheurdupasse · 14/09/2021 16:45

In communist Eastern Europe (and post communist! where did the last 40 years go), all schools are selective - and state. There are entry exams twice, after 4 and 8 years of school.

So not to do with Tories.