Bully Proof your children. Do you agree with this?

[roisin]

Has anyone come across assertiveness programmes, or read books to 'bully-proof' your kids?
What do you think of this?
Does it work?

Of course bullying is always wrong and bullying is never the victim's fault. And Bullying should always be reported to an adutl, who should deal with it.

But I am very aware that there is something in ds2's personality that makes him a potential victim, a soft-target for bullies; in the way that doesn't apply to ds1.
Is this something that can be changed?

i think certain kids just arn't 'built that way - its got nothing to do with how you bring them up or what you tell them - what courses you go on or what books you read - if your kid isn't a 'hit em back' kinda kid then thats that.

i can say this becuase i have three - my eldest boy was certainly the kind of kid that once started on would punch the other kids lights out and ask questions later.

my daughter is assertive and although wouldnt want to get into a fight - she wouldnt stand backa nd get picked on

then there is my younges son - twin to dd ( above) he would get picked on and on and on - and when younger my dd often stuck up for him - challenging boys who picked on him. my eldest lad had warned younger kids to leave him alone - but had it not been for these older siblings - my kid would be THAT bullied kid.

and no amount of me telling him to do anything would have changed that becuase it is just not in him.

I'm not sure, tbh, I thought that ds would be bullied and lo, so he was but, we picked his middle school solely on the strength of their attitude to the welfare of the children in their care (they were at the time, slightly lagging on the academic side according to the tables). And we made the right choice because when he did get bullied they were excellent, his confidence improved, his schoolwork improved and of course, now they are one of the best schools here.

I don't have much knowledge about this but at school we have put victims of bullying onto programmes which involved them working in primary schools, supporting less able children with reading etc. That worked wonders for their self-esteem.

I'd be more inclined to go down the "Get them into a Drama club" (or something) route - this would build up their confidence, give them a "safe" forum for making friends and also give them something to talk about to build up the friendship, so that they are not struggling with the whole "small-talk" thing.

Though I suspect that isn't what you were asking, so I'll shut up now!

I don't think that they work by changing your child's personailty to a radical degree, but a child can learn better ways of dealing with tough situations.

they can work in some children. Not all, but nothing is ever fool proof.

BTW we don't send all victims off on assertiveness courses. But if it becomes a repeated 'role' we do send them, and it can be helpful

and they can also work with that (admitedly small) group of children who seek out negative attention by goading others into lashing out at them. Though as I say these are very small in number, and do not make up most of the children who are victimised in this way.

Hmmm...

DS2 is just always very bothered about what other people think of him, the extent to which he does - or does not - "fit in", whether he is different from his peers etc. This means he responds when he is teased, and so gets teased more.

DS1 is quite 'odd' in many ways, and sticks out. But he is genuinely not bothered by it, so if he does get teased it just doesn't stick, so isn't repeated. So despite being a bit of an eccentric loner he is actually very popular and something of a leader in social terms at school.

It just seems peculiar to me that ds2 has better social skills, but this means he is more likely to be a victim of bullies, not less.

Helping someone who is being bullied to become more assertive and teaching them how to deal with difficult situations is always good.

Failing that....

Karate.

that is a very interesting point roisin.

DD is very sociable and charming and much more susceptible to peer group pressure, than DS is. For example, she's told me not to give her tuna sandwiches as Sophie (her current friend) doesn't like fish and wont' want to sit next to her.

I've often thought that she is not only more likely to be vulnerable to bullying, but also to become part of a crowd of bullies because of wanting to fit in.

To say that your child is more likely to be picked on - are you not therefore subconsciouslessly labelling your child as a "victim"?

I voiced my concerns about dd to her teacher last year. dd is very quiet, afraid to speak out if someone hits her, would dissolve into tears after a friend had been and only then would admit that the friend had stolen from her. I explained to the teacher that as I had been bullied, I had been a quiet child, I had been "different" and therefore I feared for dd. The teacher very wisely said to me, "but your dd is not you. She will not have the same background as you, the same upbringing, the same personality. Just because this happened to you does not mean to say it will happen to her. You need to look at your dd for who she is and not with fear for what she may become".

I thought long and hard about that and realised that I had conditioned my child. I had told people that she was quiet and shy, therefore she would say "I'm too shy to speak to so and so". I had labelled her without realising it.

I now encourage her to talk to me about her friends and if there is a problem, I let her see me going to her teachers to talk about it. I let her see that by confiding in me, action will be taken. The bullying can stop if she talks to me or the teachers, it has stopped and I think that is the most important thing you can tell them.

And tell them every day how brilliant they are, how you love them for being different. Praise them when they speak out, praise them when they confide in you a problem. Make your child a confident communicator and one who believes in themselves.

You can't protect them from the bullies, but you can give them the tools they need to deal with it effectively.

tell me i was wrong, but it stopped. I went from a private school that had been closed down, to the local RC Comp school (my choice). I was the SH Tart because i came from a private school. I was bullied for 2/3 months. I have 3 brothers so therefore take no crap. Or so I thought, i put up with the bitches fron hell for 3 long months. Eventually I snapped. Bully bitch 1 kicked me,.... Somewhere, and something in me said boot the bitch good and hard back. I did. It worked, we became very good friends. Sorry, I'm quite ole skool on this, however it worked for me and many others i have spoken to.

"To say that your child is more likely to be picked on - are you not therefore subconsciouslessly labelling your child as a "victim"?"

No, I really don't think so. It's fairly easy to pick out the children who are more likely to be bullied without anyone having labelled them.

Yes you can predict, but if you behave towards that child as though they are already a victim....maybe you have labelled them as shy, perhaps you are too protective of them, perhaps when they tell you of something that has happened at school your reaction is one of horror and anger that discourages them from telling you again. Very often we don't realise we are sending out such negative signals, but it's not until you sit back and go through your own reactions and your turn of speech etc, that you realise you are already treating your child as a victim.

It's just a thought. More of a what not to do. These kids need positivity to grow in confidence.

Actually Rhubarb, I can see your point, as I typed my reply to the OP, I was thinking about self fulfilling prophecies but, I guess we'll never know for sure.
Nobody picks on him now that's for sure, he's very self confident.

This is helpful all - thank you.
Rhubarb, I don't think I do project in this way - well not yet anyway. As a child I was like ds1, so I am still just astonished that ds2 is. He has not been seriously picked on or bullied yet, but IMO the way he has responded to some teasing means he will be picked on more in the future.

He's not shy and I don't think I'm particularly protective.

He seems to have high self esteem and confidence, but he just has this overriding desire to fit in and be the same as everyone else and not stand out. And I think this is potentially dangerous.

Don't most kids have that though?

Even DS, who is not as susceptible to peer group pressure as DD, still wants to fit in.

Maybe, I don't know. I didn't when I was a child: I was happy and proud to be different, and ds1 is too.

But maybe we're the exceptions.

DS2 desperately wants to fit in and constantly takes steps to avoid standing out.