Am I right in thinking that my children won't necessarily get a place at our local school?

[Flamingoose]

We are British, but we moved abroad nearly 20 years ago. I know nothing about the British education system. We will soon be moving back to the north of England with our children and I'm trying to get my head around everything.

As far as I can work out, even though there is quite a good primary school at the end of our road, my youngest (aged 8) won't necessarily get a place there, and I have to choose 5 schools and hope that she gets a place at one of them? Please tell me I'm wrong.

Alternatively, you don't have to send your youngest to school immediately. You could home educate whilst waiting for a suitable for school place to become available. Obviously, whether this is an option will depend on your personal circumstances and the pupil turnover in your area.

With your 8 year old it will purely come down to which school has a space. you are lucky that they are no longer in infants (Reception - year 2) as the requirement to only have a max of 30 kids in a class is more strictly adhered to. You may get lucky that if NO schools within a large distance have any spaces they will let you go over PAN and have 31 in a class so you may get the local school, but you may not especially if like some of the village schools around there the classrooms were made for 24 kids ina class and not 30 so already way too small!

6th form may be slightly different and i would start ringing schools/colleges now to see where there are places, what results are needed and what subjects they provide.

Sixth form/college can be a different system, based on entry qualifications, course requirements, previous school and location. FE colleges tend to attract students from a wider area and backgrounds.

In my area the majority of schools don't have 6th forms so students go to one of two large 6th form colleges. There is a place guaranteed for anyone who applies, your results simply determine whether you are allowed to take A levels, Level 3 Btec or GCSE retake/Level 2 Btec.

@Tlollj

We had this when our son was five. Said he couldn’t go to the nearby school when we had just moved into the area. Wanted him to go miles away in a taxi. I just said no he’s not going in a taxi when there’s a school 5 mins away. They found him a place in the school I wanted. Dig your heels in.

More likely you were at the top of the waiting list and a child left so you got the place. But if it makes you happy, you dug your heels in and got a place.

Can you be back in early August before GCSE results day? Thats when Sixth Forms would be finalising their lists for September so it's a good time to have talked to schools and find which will give you a spot.

You might want to see if there’s a Facebook group for parents in the area you are moving to, this kind of question gets asked a lot in our local group. And get onto the local authority website to find out about the process locally. Also note that there may be stand alone sixth form and FE colleges in different areas that could be open to your older child

Nope they had an extra one in the class 😀

@Tlollj

Nope they had an extra one in the class 😀

Then I assume you're not in England, as it's actually not legal to go over the 30 limit unless they have two teachers in the class.

They can have over 30 in very rare circumstances (twins, won an appeal, or fair access protocol).

Its not just being obstinate. There is procedures.

There are RARE occasions when you can have more than 30 in a class. My yr 2 was denied a place incorrectly and was later granted one on appeal, they then accepted my Reception aged child as an additional place because, had his elder brother been correctly assigned a place initially, the younger one would also have been accepted! But it isn't a common occurrence.

Some posts are confusing two systems.

When you apply at a normal application point (so reception or year 7) then offers are made according to the school criteria (sibling priority, shortest distance etc).

However you are applying for an in year place - there won't be a waiting list. Phone the school and ask if they have a space - if they have, do a formal application quickly and the place is yours. Even if you live at the other end of the country (you will need to be in England though). There aren't usually waiting lists for year groups other than year R/7.

For your older one, get searching on the internet! They maybe better suited to IB depending on your system - A levels are only taken in three, possibly four subjects. We specialise early here. As well as school sixth forms you've got sixth form colleges and further education colleges. The latter offer all sorts of qualifications including for those that failed or did badly at age 16 - so be aware that the peer group will be different from a school sixth form - which will typically be much smaller than a college.

Each will have their own admirations criteria though, and that will include some sort of academic requirement, so get in touch ASAP as they won't be familiar with overseas qualifications. They will also break up in a few days for summer so you need to be very very quick.

@titchy there absolutely are waiting lists at schools other than for y7 and R. In our large town there is a lot of movement and some schools have very long wait lists. There are spaces in other schools - but obviously the ones with Ofsted outstanding are more over subscribed than others.

I was on the waitlist for our local school for in year transfer from June to October for one child (we came onto the list very high up as we are very close to the school) and then the other got a place on appeal in February.

[quote Mumdiva99]@titchy there absolutely are waiting lists at schools other than for y7 and R. In our large town there is a lot of movement and some schools have very long wait lists. There are spaces in other schools - but obviously the ones with Ofsted outstanding are more over subscribed than others.

I was on the waitlist for our local school for in year transfer from June to October for one child (we came onto the list very high up as we are very close to the school) and then the other got a place on appeal in February.[/quote]
It will vary. Schools are not obliged to have waiting lists for any year group other than reception or year 7 - and even then only for one term. Hence why OP needs to get on the phone pdq!

@titchy

Some posts are confusing two systems.

When you apply at a normal application point (so reception or year 7) then offers are made according to the school criteria (sibling priority, shortest distance etc).

However you are applying for an in year place - there won't be a waiting list. Phone the school and ask if they have a space - if they have, do a formal application quickly and the place is yours. Even if you live at the other end of the country (you will need to be in England though). There aren't usually waiting lists for year groups other than year R/7.

For your older one, get searching on the internet! They maybe better suited to IB depending on your system - A levels are only taken in three, possibly four subjects. We specialise early here. As well as school sixth forms you've got sixth form colleges and further education colleges. The latter offer all sorts of qualifications including for those that failed or did badly at age 16 - so be aware that the peer group will be different from a school sixth form - which will typically be much smaller than a college.

Each will have their own admirations criteria though, and that will include some sort of academic requirement, so get in touch ASAP as they won't be familiar with overseas qualifications. They will also break up in a few days for summer so you need to be very very quick.

There well could be a waiting list, and if there are two or more children on it then the normal entry criteria will apply . So for example child A lives 800 m from the school and has been on the waiting list for three months . Child B lives only 200 m so takes precedence even if they have only recently moved into the area and will be offered a place first if one arises. However if a looked after child applies they will take precedence over both even if they live further away. If siblings are placed higher in the criteria than distance then that can make a difference too.

I work in an extremely over-subscribed school. We operate waiting lists for all years, as people are still desperate to come here a long time after not gaining a place in Y7, not to mention people that move into the (naice, leafy) area and want their children to attend a local school (we're one of the reasons they move here usually).
I'm not aware of any secondaries near us that don't have waiting lists, or primaries for that matter.

Absolutely schools run in year waiting lists, even if they're not technically obliged to. I've got a friend whose child has got sibling priority (her other child got a place at the school) and has still been on the waiting list for over 18 months!

I knew asking you lot would be more useful than endless googling. Am so grateful for all this advice.

Am slightly panicked that even fee-paying schools are not necessarily going to have a place. Not that we can really afford it, but I'd kept it at the back of my mind that if all else fails we could always beg, borrow and scrape enough to get the eldest through 2 years of A-levels at a private school while we work out how everything works for the other two.
Also concerned about the idea that a FE place might not want eldest if she's unfunded. Trying to get through to local council about that but they've been keeping me on hold for 15 mins + and it's costing a fortune in international phone calls.
I will be contacting local schools and councils.

Trying to work out the right community facebook page to join.

For sixth forms, you don't apply via the LEA you contact the college directly. Most sixth form / FE colleges will already have broken up for the Summer but there may still be staff dealing with applications.
Does the country you are moving from have GCSE equivalent qualifications taken at aged 16 or not is the key question here?
To start A levels your dd will need 5 or more GCSE or equivalent passes including Maths and English Language. Pupils have 3 years post 16 funding, so if you don't have any GCSEs or equivalent may colleges have a programme where pupils can complete level 2 before moving to A levels (dds sixth form college did this, but was in a different area).
You should receive funding for sixth form, it's university that could be a problem as you could be liable for overseas student fees if you have not been resident in the UK for some time.

@Flamingoose

Can anyone explain how they decide who gets to go to the school, if it's not necessarily the people who live in the area? What's the criteria to get in?

In year admissions are different to admissions at the start of Reception, Year 7 and Year 12. You are looking for an in year admission for your youngest. It’s a case of finding the nearest school with availability. Contact the local authority school admissions and they will tell you which schools have vacancies in the year group you’re after. For the child starting A levels, contact the local 6th forms directly.

@Flamingoose

I knew asking you lot would be more useful than endless googling. Am so grateful for all this advice. Am slightly panicked that even fee-paying schools are not necessarily going to have a place. Not that we can really afford it, but I'd kept it at the back of my mind that if all else fails we could always beg, borrow and scrape enough to get the eldest through 2 years of A-levels at a private school while we work out how everything works for the other two. Also concerned about the idea that a FE place might not want eldest if she's unfunded. Trying to get through to local council about that but they've been keeping me on hold for 15 mins + and it's costing a fortune in international phone calls. I will be contacting local schools and councils. Trying to work out the right community facebook page to join.

What LA are you moving to? Maybe someone in here could find out school places on your behalf?

@Flamingoose just chipping in to suggest you email the school, rather than phone. You’re more likely to get a clear answer, and to be sure to get it from the right person.

However you are applying for an in year place - there won't be a waiting list.

There absolutely may be a waiting list for all year groups.

I agree with emailing not phoning! Also- for eldest,swerve the LA, they're not involved with FE sector, only schools/colleges themselves will tell you whether they'd take her, as funding is directly from govt not LAs.

FWIW, we have accepted children without GCSE equivalent exams to our 6th form, provided there's other evidence of having correct ability level for A Level study (e.g. international bacc study transcript, SAT etc).

Re fee-paying schools being full- this really is dependent on area, and I am not based in the north, so may well be fine where you're moving to.

However, if you are expecting a place for September, anywhere decent will have made their offers months ago, and not be in a position to offer a place. A larger, less academic FE college are more likely to be able to offer a place.
If it's September 2022 you'll be fine.

You should also be aware that for HE in the UK, in order to be eligible for student funding (i.e. student loan for fees and for living costs) there is a 3 year residency requirement, so you need to think hard about the impact that will have on finances. Though a year out after A Level rather than before is pretty common in UK, and allows them to build up a buffer pot by earning.

If your eldest hasn't done GCSEs you'd be mad to move her into A levels. It's such a different system. I'd only move her into an international school. You'd be taking a huge risk for her.