Am I right in thinking that my children won't necessarily get a place at our local school?

[Flamingoose]

We are British, but we moved abroad nearly 20 years ago. I know nothing about the British education system. We will soon be moving back to the north of England with our children and I'm trying to get my head around everything.

As far as I can work out, even though there is quite a good primary school at the end of our road, my youngest (aged 8) won't necessarily get a place there, and I have to choose 5 schools and hope that she gets a place at one of them? Please tell me I'm wrong.

Afraid you're right, there's no guarantee.

You're not wrong.
You need that address at the end of the road on the application form. That's the best bet but definitely not a given she will get in, especially as she's already 8 and not part of a new intake.

Particularly InYear applications are allocated wherever there is a space in the year group. You can express preferences and may be lucky , but maybe not. Once refused a place at a school you can appeal but that takes a while and may not successful.

Oh gosh. That's quite a system. So... I'd just have to hope they got in somewhere? My eldest would be about to start A-levels. That's one heck of a gamble.

Can anyone explain how they decide who gets to go to the school, if it's not necessarily the people who live in the area? What's the criteria to get in?

The majority of schools have similar admissions policies:
1 - adopted or children in care
2 - children with additional needs which makes that particular school the most suitable
3 - children who lives closest

Some schools give priority to those of a particular faith.
However, if the school has a place in the class you need and has no waiting list for spaces in that class then the space will be given to your child.

You should be able to call the local council to get an idea of which schools might have capacity - but they won’t guarantee that there will be a place when you move.

It can be a nightmare, depending on the local council (I know mine is a nightmare from speaking to many people who have moved into my area with school ages kids!).

If you applied at the same time as everyone else for a reception place at an infants or primary, or a year 3 place at a junior school, then you’d be very unlucky not to get a place at the school at the end of your road. If your child is 8 then the chances are the class or classes for that age group (year 3?) will already be full unless it’s a very undersubscribed school. So you’d have to wait for someone to leave before a place becomes available. This is all my assumption as I’ve never had to apply for anything other than reception places or secondary year 7 places.

Each school will have it's own set of application criteria - for a local authority school this may all be on the council web site, for an academy it will be on there web site.

An in year admission wait list is held (if there are no current vacancies as the school). The spaces are applied in the order of the application criteria so for example these may be:
Looked after children,
Children who live in catchment with a sibling at the school
Children who live in catchment
Children of staff
Children who live out of catchment.

There will be a distance criteria usually for those who live in catchment - so someone living 0.5 miles from the school will get a higher place on the waitlist than someone who lives 0.75 miles from the school.

The waitlists are constantly updated to reflect the latest applicants.

Your best bet now is to call and see which schools have spaces in the year you are interested in. Once you know you are moving and have the completion date you can usually apply for the school place. But you will be told when this is when you contact admissions.

Since your younger child is 8 then it will be an in year application. You can in theory apply for as many schools as you like, but clearly you want to focus on the one at the end of the road. If the school is full then you will have to appeal for a place, you have to show that your child’s need to attend that school is greater than the schools not wanting a larger class size. You will need to find out what the PAN is for the school, and whether or not they have gone over that number in the past. The authority will have to offer you a place somewhere, the issue will be whether you want the school they offer.

I am more concerned about your child starting AL, do you know what subjects they want to study, does the local school offer them, will they accept whatever qualifications your child has got as a basis for accepting them onto an AL course.

Schools are about to break up for the summer, I would contact the local authority school admissions department as soon as possible to see what the situation is, some will accept applications if you have a UK address even if the children are not yet in the country, others won’t until the children are resident.

I would also advise you to repost in the specific Primary and Secondary boards, there are some very knowledgeable people there, especially if it comes to having to make an appeal.

Ps meant to say, if the school you want is full and you decide to appeal make sure you are placed on the waiting list for the school while the appeal goes through , living so near you would be very close to the top of the list and you might get lucky!

If the school at the end of your road wasn’t in your catchment and was oversubscribed, chances would be low. For primary, anyway.
Catchment lines can be bizarre!

If they were going for sixth form, that tends to depend on their GCSE results.

Locally to me, it’s much easier to get into a school for A levels. The outstanding schools in the two adjacent towns are over subscribed for years 7 - 11 but it’s easy to get in for sixth form.

Oh wow, thank you for these replies. So appreciate people taking the time.
Yes, I'm more worried about the eldest too. I barely know where to start with her. A-levels are a very different system from where we are now. She does very well at school and has high ambitions, and I'm desperate not to stuff up her chances with this bloody move.
I'm going to re-read your posts and take the advice.

Weve done in year admissions twice for our 8yo (and our 10yo). The first time, 8yo got our second nearest school, this time she got the school 100m away. (The 10yo had no place allocated initially after the first move, then one several miles away then her sisters school on appeal. This move... initially not allocated, but fortunately someone left school 100m so she was given a place 2 days after her sister and actually started on the same day).

There's a lot of luck involved with in year admissions. They have to find you a place and provide transport if its not close enough (2 or 3 miles, it depends on area and age). It doesn't have to be at a school you like though.

I wouldn't necessarily panic, some areas are more oversubscribed than others, we've never had an issue. Even when we moved house so were an in year application, there were spaces at the local school for both children. We didn't like that school when we visited but were able to get a place at a school we preferred for both children, which was a short drive away. Whenever we've applied at normal times we have got our first choice, we were in different parts of the country each time as well.

A levels is totally different. it's really common to either move schools or go to an FE college for A levels.

As others have said, in year admissions really depend on which schools have places. The local authority might tell you if they are feeling co-operative or you might have to rung each school and ask.

We had this when our son was five. Said he couldn’t go to the nearby school when we had just moved into the area. Wanted him to go miles away in a taxi. I just said no he’s not going in a taxi when there’s a school 5 mins away. They found him a place in the school I wanted. Dig your heels in.

Round here if you did that you would be expected to accept the place or home educate.

@Tlollj

We had this when our son was five. Said he couldn’t go to the nearby school when we had just moved into the area. Wanted him to go miles away in a taxi. I just said no he’s not going in a taxi when there’s a school 5 mins away. They found him a place in the school I wanted. Dig your heels in.

It’s really not as simple as ‘finding a place’ or ‘digging heels in’. If there are no places, there are no places.

OP - phone the LA and find out which schools have places. For your a-level pupil, call the schools/colleges direct (that one will be easier!)

In England digging your heels in won't make a jot of difference. It's down to the PAN ( okay,few exceptions for academies etc).

Your 8yo won't get choices as such, the LA will tell you which school (s) have a space in the correct year group, and you'll be expected to take that. You can then put her onto the waiting list for the school you prefer. She may not get a place though, depending on the area, if it's somewhere that people don't tend to leave and there's no turnover for example.

For A levels are you talking sept 2021? All the 6th forms in my area have closed application rounds months ago. A levels is different, as admission is based upon GCSE results in most cases.
I am assuming your eldest hasn't done GCSE or iGCSE, from what you've said. In this case I would contact individual schools and colleges in the area to see which would consider accepting her. It may well depend which country you've been living in, as if it is outside the EEA then there are issues for funding entitlement (i.e. she isn't entitled to FE funding). Some 6th forms are really running on air now, and may turn down a student that a) doesn't have the admission requirements, b) won't be fully funded.

Tlollj's plan is dangerous, and might work, or might end you up with no school place.

If going for A levels, it's slightly different. Can you be in England for early August? Then at least you will be competing with others applying with their GCSE grades. Have a look at the places and courses your oldest might be interested in. Do you have any exam grades from age 16 that might need converting into GCSE equivalents?

For the others, you are looking at in year applications. You will be offered the nearest school with places, unless you ask for something that has places and is further away as a preference.

When it was us doing this, the council kindly let us know which schools had places, so we could just put those down in preference order. It's worth emailing them to ask what availability is like.

You cant apply until you are in England, and have a permanent address. You may need to prove when you land in the UK - keep your flight/ferry boarding cards/tickets etc. You need to be in the school pretty quickly after accepting the place - we were given 3 weeks from accepting to physically being in school. Obviously the summer holidays could extend that.

Good luck

Yes, realistically having diggy heels and sharp elbows makes no difference at all. If there's no place, there's no place. Our LEA even abandoned the concept of waiting lists as they said they 'created an expectation' in the minds of parents.

Criteria vary from one authority to the next, but they are broadly as people have said: it's looked-after children, special needs, siblings at school (does that rule still exist?), living in catchment, and usually those three/four fill the places in popular schools. Any places left over go to those out of catchment, measured by distance.

And ignore bs about'digging your heels in'
No places means no places, and I live in an authority where the majority of schools have no places, or you really don't want your child in that school that does have a place!
The LA just has to offer your child a place, it doesn't have to be any specific school (unless the child has an EHCP, what used to be called a Statement of additional needs), they will offer the closest (as the crow flies, might be a nightmare to get to!) school that your child meets the criteria for that has a place.
Families move to my city and get offered reception two miles away, Y2 4 miles in the opposite direction, Y5 3 miles another way... it's all down to the population in the area you're moving to I'm afraid.
You wouldn't even secure fee-paying places here! Schools are that over-subscribed.