Any Maths teachers in England, can you help?

[DonnaDonna01]

My son is in Yr10, a large amount of pupils in his year have been moved down to sitting Foundation Maths rather than higher. They’re currently working at level 4/5 and we are being told they are more likely to get a 5 at foundation and there is no likelihood of them improving in the next 12months in Yr11. Would you agree in general that this is the best option? School aren’t very forthcoming with info.

Local school allow pupils to sit both.

There’s no reason they can’t be entered for both exams. They could do the foundation in November and the intermediate paper in June.

Bluebells are you in Wales? There isn’t an Intermediate paper in England and the November sitting is for resits only here.

If your DS is currently working at a grade 4/5 at the end of Y10, then he should be sitting the higher paper. If he is predicted to be getting a grade 4/5 at the end of Y11, then he should probably sit foundation. You need to be clear what his results mean and how they were assessed as it differs between schools.

Not wales but welsh board papers! I didn’t realize it was a different exam board.

That said I would assume they’ve missed huge chunks of the curriculum and May struggle to get through it in time for exams. The school won’t know exam criteria until the last minute - they maybe edging their bets.

He has always worked at level 5/6. At the end of this year he is at level 4, expected grade 5. We are being told they are moving to foundation from September no option, no discussion. Only info has been they will be more likely to get a 5 at foundation level.

They can't sit both - Foundation and Higher tiers are on at the same time and date

@BluebellsGreenbells why would they have missed high chunks of the curriculum? That hasn’t been mentioned.

They won't as such have missed 'huge chunks' in maths but of course may be behind where they would normally have been in a non pandemic year. Most pupils don't cover everything in maths, and certainly not those in the 4-6 range.

The school is probably playing it safe given it doesn't know how much disruption there may be over this coming winter.

OP - does he 'need' a 6 in maths for anything? Does he have other subjects where desired grades are a bit shaky to achieve? Might he be relieved come May next year not to be having to revise level 6/7 maths and have the time for other subjects instead? Or would a 5 for maths be disappointing and possibly lower than other subject grades?

Is there a higher set in his band/stream he could be moved to, or is he already top set in his stream? (Thinking about timetable here).

@TeenMinusTests I wouldn’t say he needs a 6 as such in Maths but my concern is he still has another year to go and is comfortably working at a level 4/5. The school are saying do a foundation and he’s more likely to get a 5 but that takes away any chance of doing better and if he is expecting to get a 4 or 5 what’s the lose in doing a higher? He is already in the stream that does higher maths but the school want to move half the class next year to the class below and thus would mean foundation.

What's to lose is going straight into a harder paper with no easy questions to warm up. You panic and end up with a 3 or nothing at all.

Then also trying to revise harder stuff and it eating into revision time for other subjects.

(I'm not a teacher by the way, but I've an interest so follow discussions, but also my DD in y10 pre-pandemic was ~ where your DS is, in a cross over set where some would do higher and some foundation, so I thought a lot about it all! noble is a maths teacher who gives sound advice so suggest you follow that )

I had something similar at school. I wanted to do the lower paper as I knew I had no chance of an A but they made me do the higher. I ended up with a C. I really think I'd have done better with the lower paper.

@TeenMinusTests I appreciate what you say and no guarantee getting a 4/5 but I think the school should be communicating with parents and pupils more. He has been offered some private tutoring over the summer, I’m just not sure if to just leave it and let him do the foundation or try and help him too improve and ask if he can try the higher paper.

It's tricky isn't it, especially with no intermediate paper.
maybe contact the school and ask for the maths teacher to ring you?

If they have looked at the y10 exams and just said top half to higher, bottom half to foundation that seems different to individually considering each pupil and making tailored decisions.

On the GCSE certificate it doesn't say Higher or Foundation. A 5 is a 5 is a 5.

I'd ask to speak to someone about it and find out where they are now.

For example I have students who have got a 4 on foundation in mocks now. They (and I) want to stay on foundation and nail getting a 5. However we have students who have got a 4 on higher that are desperate to stay higher in case they get a 6. Those have been much more nuanced discussions around confidence, how they feel, how hard they will work etc. It's not a blanket decision on the borderline.

On the other side of the argument is group sizes and staffing. Teaching both tiers in one room is very difficult and not beneficial for students really.

He has always worked at level 5/6.

Ah, this sounds like confusion about reporting of levels. He can't have always been working at a 5/6, what they've been reporting is that they think that's the sort of grade he'll be getting at GCSE. It is, however, very difficult to predict the future, especially during the last 18 months when decent data on students has been thin on the ground.

It sounds like he has sat some proper end of year exams at the higher level and they have got a better idea of where he is at and think that he will struggle at higher. Do you know what his results are and how he found the papers?

If he struggled quite a lot with the higher papers, then it is a good idea to make the switch to foundation now, so that he is properly prepared to sit them. If, for example, he aces his mocks on foundation (presumably around Nov Y11) then there is still time to argue that he should be moved back to higher before the final exams.

The foundation and higher papers overlap by 25% (the grade 4/5 content) so he'll be working on content that will be on both papers.

and if he is expecting to get a 4 or 5 what’s the lose in doing a higher?

I've got a class who have just sat higher for their end of Y10 exams. Some of them will be moving to foundation as it's clear that the paper isn't suitable for them. It isn't good for students mathematically or psychologically to be sitting a paper where they're getting a very low percentage.

There is always a debate about whether it's easier to get a 4/5 on higher or foundation, I would agree with your DS's school and say foundation. It's certainly a better experience for them to sit foundation.

Oh, and take up the private tutoring if he's been offered it. Y11 is going to be tough regardless of what paper he sits and any support should be seized!

@noblegiraffe his end of year reports have always stated his expected grade and where he was at that time, none have been below 5 until this year, which is a 4/5. End of year exam this year was a grade 4. We have been told they will not move back to higher regardless of result in mocks. I don’t want him to do a GCSE he will struggle with but there again I don’t want his chances of improving completely removed now.

Were his exams a full set of GCSE papers?

If he sat a full set of GCSE higher papers and got a 4, then the argument that his best chance of getting a 5 is on Foundation doesn't hold. It might still be true, however, that it would be better for him to sit foundation.

I think it's a mistake for them to say that he cannot move back to higher regardless of mock results. There may be, however, as Herc mentioned, logistical restrictions regarding group sizes and staffing.

It doesn't sound like you're happy with the decision and it needs a more personalised discussion so I would suggest requesting a call from either his maths teacher or Head of Maths.