Optimum A Level Class size?

[sometimesnever]

DD is about to start A levels and it looks like some of her classes may have less than 10 students. These are humanity/arts subjects in a state grammar. Seems everyone else is picking Maths and Sciences!

At first I thought that sounded great as a teacher/pupil ratio but is this too small for meaningful class discussion? Just wondered what the ideal number of students would be for humanity/arts subjects at A Level?

I have 13 and it’s great. Less than 8 would be hard work.

In my subject (MFL) I think the ideal class is 8-10. Any more and it's hard to give any level of individual attention.

DD did French in a class of two which wasn't ideal, but she does admit that it really helped her speaking. I recall when training I was in an A left
French class of 19 which was far too many.

DS2 just finished A levels and had 12 in his maths class (one of two classes) and about 15 in PE, maybe 20 in biology.

OP I think less than 10 is fine but if it is less than five there is a lot of pressure on each student to get on with the work! I did one of my A levels as the only student and that was Not Good.

Interesting! DS has had taster sessions for his A levels this week; one subject is in a class of two, and one in a class of three - both arts/language subjects. His Biology class is much bigger and things like Geography, Psychology, Maths all have huge classes. He doesn't seem too bothered, but it did make us wonder how it will work. We expected them to be small, but not that small!

DS's state school has a 2 geography classes of 9. The geography department have actively chosen this rather than 1 class of 18 (his other subjects are taught in classes of 20).

Interested to hear from some parents with DC in the big name independents. Wonder what numbers are like in those schools?

As a parent I like the idea of nowhere to hide in a small class. DD not so keen!

In all schools class sizes will vary. Big name schools often have tiny classes for subjects few do, such as Greek or perhaps Music or less popular languages. Subjects such as Maths, the sciences, History, Economics will probably be larger. In the schools I have contact with, these subjects seem to vary from about 8 to about 12. When there are several classes in a year group, timetabling will often mean there’s at least one larger group and one smaller group and they will rarely be of equal size….so until September you probably cannot know for sure what class size you will have.

Personally, I like around 8 students…..it’s enough for discussion, without the marking load being too vast. Beyond 12 and the marking load is getting big, especially in essay subjects.

In all schools, some subjects are effectively cross-subsidising others. Many have small groups in languages whilst others are 3 or 4 times larger.

I wouldnt let it be the key factor in choosing. Students quickly adapt to the class size and the teacher will teach with the group size in mind and adjust activities. There are pros and cons of small and larger classes. Often state schools will go above 20 for A Level….that kind of size impacts the kind of teaching that can be done….a bit more like a GCSE class rather than a seminar style. But of course, lots of students get great grades and in the end you have to have what’s available at your school.

Students leaving year 11 can be horrified at the thought of a class of 5 and think it will be too intense with nowhere to hide. Nowhere to hide isn’t a bad thing, and again, it’s just something most aren’t used to from earlier on. They quickly adapt and even being in small class for one subject and bigger for others, all can feel normal as they just accept what they find themselves in and the expectations and style of different teachers which can be quite different, regardless of class size.

I think because it's a state school class sizes haven't really been on my radar. The small A Level class sizes have been a (nice) surprise. But as has been said it is what it is. It's a great school and DD wants to continue there so we would have stayed regardless.

A small class size can be good for discussion as students are not too scared to contribute. My DDs both did a subject with a small class size ( one did further maths, the other classics), and they both found that because of the small size the class bonded really well as a group.
They are at a large sixth form with 300+ students per year, and there are students in their other classes they have never spoken to, which makes them much more reluctant to speak up.

In my experience, as a teacher, I have taught groups from size 1 up to size 20 at A level and to a large extent the optimum size depends on the people in the set. If all 3 students gel and talk, a set of 3 can be brilliant, while I have taught sets in the mid-teens (which sounds ideal) where the students don't get on particularly well so discussion can be a bit awkward/tense and it's more difficult to manage. I think that less than 10 is absolutely ideal to be honest. It's good for the ones who want to hide (and I have taught plenty of those!); they do tend to come out of their shells.

I'm more worried about class sizes of 24 - huge sixth-form college, which seems to work on the basis of 24 being the maximum, and because of its size it's only things like Latin which have less than 20. They have hundreds doing Further Maths!
However they get the results, and DD is used to being in larger classes, so there's no reason she should cope any less well at A-level.

@usedtobeboss3

Interesting! DS has had taster sessions for his A levels this week; one subject is in a class of two, and one in a class of three - both arts/language subjects. His Biology class is much bigger and things like Geography, Psychology, Maths all have huge classes. He doesn't seem too bothered, but it did make us wonder how it will work. We expected them to be small, but not that small!

Is this an independent school @usedtobeboss3 ? In my school (large sixth form) we will not run a subject if the numbers are lower than 5

Yes @Marcanana it is an independent school, with a decent sized sixth form. I have to say we were a bit surprised (but pleased, of course) that they are running both subjects for such small numbers. It may be because one of the subjects is music, and the music dept is thriving but for some reason his year is a bit of a blip - I think it's usually at least 5 or 6 do Music A level. Having said that, all three of them are music scholars, and there's a good chance they'll all get decent grades, which the school may be using to justify it. The other subject is more surprising - it's a MFL, and again, it seems to be a 'blip year'. Loads of people doing Maths and Sciences, Economics, Psychology etc...

Sadly @usedtobeboss3 small numbers for MFL Alevel are not unusual. Dd was one of two taking A level French, which was the only MFL A level run that year. The following year their school was the only one in our city with anyone taking A level German. These are state schools but I imagine there is a, parallel in private.

Yes, @clary, I knew MFL numbers were in decline but I was surprised by just how small the classes are. DS's school is only offering 2, rather than 3 MFL Alevels now for the first time, and I think GCSE German is disappearing next year too. The other person in his Spanish class is possibly changing her mind about taking it, so it could be one-to-one for him...! I wish schools pushed languages (esp for able students) as much as they seem to push STEM subjects...

It does sometimes seem that schools have had such a push on Sciences that the Arts and Humanities have dropped in popularity.

Hoping this will make degree courses less competitive for us!!

Ds1 is at a high performing selective independent with a reasonably big sixth form (about 150). They will run classes of any size. Only one person is currently doing drama next year for example (that person will work with the year 13 class next year and then year 12 the following year). One of subjects has 5 in. Some have up to 12 but then after that they split the classes. There are loads of maths groups.