State secondary schools with small class sizes

[vanillaflower]

Are there any good ones out there in the U.K. that aren't private schools?

I don't know of any state secondary schools with small class sizes. I only know about ones I have worked in or my DC or friends' DC have gone to but that is a reasonable number.

Generally classes are high 20s-32. My subject (MFL) often saw smaller classes at KS4 and the same might be true of other less popular subjects such as music, but in general, most students are taught in classes around 30.

The exception IME was where a school has a smaller, supported group for DC with SEN, sometimes in yr7-8 only, where the students are taught separately for many or all lessons. I have known a few schools that do this.

Why are you so concerned OP? Does your child have SEN or are you worried that they may struggle in a class of 30? A good teacher will still be able to differentiate and will support as needed.

Small class sizes are uneconomical. Schools have no money.

Your only hope is a very rural one, that's the only reason the gov would keep a small secondary going. It's usually cheaper to close it and just bus them to the next nearest.

Thanks all. I know there are primary schools that are small as I managed to find one with 15 in a class but yes that was rural and we ended up going private but I don't think we can afford private secondary.

Dc finds it difficult to cope when there are large groups, especially with the noise of a group, they clam up and generally put their fingers in their ears and we often take headphones out and about to make sure they cope with the noise of people when we go out. I am getting worried how they will cope.

If I have to send them to a bigger school I will but I thought I'd see if there were any options out there as I'd be willing to move anywhere. Dc is academically ahead and 'looks' NT but unfortunately because they are academically ok a lot of their issues (there are other quirks) are brushed under the carpet. My biggest concern now is that they won't cope with the move up to secondary.

@clary that sounds like that could work within a bigger secondary. Dc was supposed to be assessed last year but it all fell apart with lockdowns etc.

Could he go to a private school that gives a bursary?

My DC is very similar, OP. Currently at a very small primary but we're already starting a savings account in case we need to go the private route. Don't know what theyll be able to cope with when the time comes and we certainly can't magic the money up in a hurry.

I looked into this a couple of years ago and only smaller schools I found were in rural areas or private schools. My daughter is autistic and didn't have an ehcp at the time as she was coping reasonably well in her small primary and us academically gifted but I knew she wouldn't cope in a large secondary. I was right. So I started a parent lead ehcp which was accepted and she's now in a specialist ASD school where there are only 30 to 40 children in the whole school and just 7 in her class. Downside is they don't study a wide range of gcses but they are working with the local secondary for her to in the future study 2 extra exams there with help from her linked adult who monitors her through the day atm

You're not going to find a state secondary with 15 in a class I'm afraid. My DS's school has sets for key subject and larger groups as you go up the sets, so students who are struggling get less comeptition for staff time. If your DS is managing academically, also look out for that.

Schools with good SENCO support should be able to accommodate your DS and help with assessments for him.

The thing is, secondary schools in rural areas are often small, but they won't usually have small classes.

A small rural primary of (say) 40 students may have two classes of 20 (tho the yr group mix may be an issue) but a secondary of 600 (there is one near me of that size) will just have four classes of 30 in each year of 120.

OP talk to the possible schools and discuss your child's needs, see who seems to be best able to help.

You probably won't be able to find a state school with small classes (unless it's a special school) but you might be able to find a private school with a falling roll and bursaries. Definitely worth doing some research - subscription to the Good School Guide maybe.

Some schools have an SEN unit or resource base within the bigger school. Have you got your local authority 'Starting secondary in X place' pdf? Go to the websites of all possibles and see what they say about SEN.

We are on a Facebook group for parents of DC with our daughter's diagnosis and they've been a mine of information about schools.

Private schools are inspected by ISI (Ofsted equivalent) and the reports will tell you number on roll, SEN on roll, etc.

It is rather crucial that you get a diagnosis though. Could you manage to get a private assessment? We had the same issue with delays during Covid but the place we found saw us within about 4 months.

You’ll also find far less curriculum choice in smaller schools, still with class sizes of 30. Small schools can’t afford to staff a lot of different subjects.

There are two schools near us with PANs of 50 (2x25 in a class per year). But they are lottery entry over a massive area

We are taking a punt for our DD next year (she's very quiet and noise sensitive) but aren't holding out much hope. Luckily catchment school is nice. )

Even private secondary is not a guarantee of small classes of 15 or so. DD's had 25 up to GCSE although smaller for A level.

Quite a few of the high schools in Herefordshire have PAN of 80/90 split between 4 forms with some actual classes being bigger/smaller than the forms. The less popular schools e.g. Lady Hawkins in Kington are often well below PAN.

I will try to get a private diagnosis. Thanks for the ideas. Really grateful for the understanding too.
Finding it all quite difficult. Difficult to accept it's highly likely my dc isn't going to 'fit' in easily wherever they go and also difficult to ensure they have the best life I can give them with the resources I have.

Ah OP It's hard isn't it. My DS1 has SEN with no real diagnosis until he was about 13. He found secondary school challenging, and is not academically able, unlike your DC, but he came out with grades he could be proud of and found his way better at college post-16.

I would enquire about nurture groups (that's what we called it at my old school) to help support children with SEN. Or ask about support hubs or safe spaces (the library was always popular) to help.

We had similar with DS1 with ASD and had to move him to private. He is academic enough, ie not behind, but not super able and has dyslexia. We are resigned to private all the way through now as the smaller classes, calmer atmosphere and more attentive (less burnt out)staff are essential. Looking at a school from 13 with about 500 overall.

I think- investigate bursaries for private schools. People have recommended Christ's hospital to me as a school who give out a large number of bursaries. Also if private is not an option you could consider homeschooling or online school if you tried state and it didnt work out.

If you live near a major city it is likely there will be some good private schools offering bursaries there.

Sadly class sizes are large and getting even larger due to constant cuts in education funding. It was not unusual for me to have a top set with 34 students in it - and that included GCSE classes. Sets which tended to be smaller were often that way often due to behaviour issues - but they were pushing up into the high 20s.

Even A Level classes had 25 plus students in them. It is a sad reflection of how low down on the list of government priorities state education is. Making class sizes larger is the quickest way for schools to save money - totally unfair on students who just cannot have the individual time they need.

@singsingbluesilver surely that has to be bad for a majority of dc!
Re bursaries, dh earns just over (I think) what most bursaries cut off is. So we are piggy in the middle with dh earning just too much to be eligible (even more so when we take expenses into it we really are scraping the prep fees together)

I think our only back up option if we can't do state would be downsize and move to a much cheaper area or home ed. I don't think home ed would benefit dc as much as a smaller school though as they do like seeing other dc and trying to make solid friendships by seeing the same dc each day.

*I meant downside in order to pay for private school fees but this would definitely mean moving areas

Large class sizes are totally unfair on ALL students. 34 in a class you see for 1 hour per week - does not add up to much individual time per student!

“Re bursaries, dh earns just over (I think) what most bursaries cut off is.”

I think more families, whose DC is at private school, are in that difficult category than people realise and it means lots of sacrifices have to be made to manage it at all.

But it might be worth enquiring in case it varies from school to school. Also schools in some cities are cheaper than others.