Help me decide between state and private

[helpmemakethechoice]

Posted in AIBU but advised to move over here so apologies for repeat thread.

Our dc, 5 and 8, are at their local state primary. Dc1 is able, in the top group for everything and a good all rounder (likes music, sport, art, etc). I've no idea how she'd fare in a larger school, it may be a bit of big fish, small pond.

Dc2 is in reception and has a speech delay which the school are not helping with at all. They'd like to but she's in a class of 33 and I don't think they have the time or resources. She had private SALT before covid but it's proving impossible to get any more at the moment. Apart from this, she's bright but likely to be of average ability, it's hard to tell at the moment. She's beginning to read very slowly, it will probably be another year before she's confident with all her sounds. This isn't a problem as all children develop at their own pace but to give you an idea.

The school is a good state school but dc1 appears to be coasting and I'm worried that dc2 will get lost as an average ability child in a large class.

We can afford to send them both to private school. We wouldn't have to make many sacrifices to do this so it's not about the expense.
I wanted them at state because I believe in walking to school, having local friends and being involved in the community. They have all of these things and love their classes and their friends. Dc1 doesn't particularly like the learning part of school and says it's boring.

The only private school near us is non-selective and goes from 4-16. It's recommended to secure a place by year 4/5. I know a few parents with dc there and they speak highly of it, it seems like a nurturing environment. There's only 450 children in the whole school which does seem small to me especially for the secondary years. My main concern with moving them is their friendships and happiness. Plus they could no longer walk to school but getting them there and back isn't a problem. But it also seems that if we can give them this opportunity we should.

Should I take them out of their local school where they're happy and learning though possibly not thriving or stretched and move them to the private school?

For context, the state feeder secondary school is good but doesn't offer many choices as it is quite small (120 per year group). They could also walk there and keep their friendship groups from primary. We won't be able to move them to the private sector for secondary as this is the only school and it likely won't have space. Help!

Just posted this on your other thread...

We are in a similar position. Bright eldest needing more challenge. Middle DC less motivated and missed a big chunk of reception and year 1 through covid. And a pre schooler. We are moving them all in September. We can afford it and I think if we didn't do it we would always think we could have given them that opportunity. Ours are very sporty and so will really benefit from all the extra stuff the private school can provide.

They are happy in current schools so it's a risk but I think easier to do it earlier rather than later. There was a good thread last week where a poster was thinking of moving a 7 year old for work and lots of positive posts about how well they settle and adapt at that age. Though this might get different responses as it's a private school thread!!

We also intend to maintain all the local friends we have made through sports clubs etc so they will still have local friends.

It sounds affordable and logistically ok for you and a bonus that they will then be sorted for secondary too?

I haven't seen your other thread.

If you'll forgive me, the point of independent schools is that you are able to exercise choice. But you're not doing this. You're aware of one school - and haven't looked for, investigated or considered any others at all? This is not making a considered choice.

You say entry is non-selective, but you don't say anything about the school's results. Are you sure it would be a sufficiently stretching environment for your elder child?

And was the number of children a typo? Surely that would be an almost impossibly small school - and barely financially viable.

Don't move them. I got moved for this reason at 8 and didn't appreciate it!

It meant I missed out on having local friends, and it takes ages to settle in.

Imo primary school is for happiness and confidence. That lasts you a lifetime. A clever child who is motivated to work will succeed in secondary. They'll catch up quick if anything missed etc.

Oddly dd2 also had speech delay! There was a waiting list of years so when it was coming to school age we got it done privately. The woman went and did it in school which was great.

There must be someone who can do it if you have the £££ which it sounds like you have.

Also a non selective private school, is it going to stretch your older child anyway?

I think it's really important to give them what they need and will thrive in as far as poss

I'd leave in primary. Think selective good state or private for secondary for DC 1. And if not a logistic nightmare, wherever you think dc2 will thrive as well

Oh sorry missed the bit about secondary.

'Dc1 doesn't particularly like the learning part of school and says it's boring.'

Do you know why? All the subjects?

Bright doesn't necessarily mean studious/ enjoys academic setting

Obviously it can be because they're bored- does dc1 do a lot of reading learning out of school and so knows what's being taught already? Finds it really easy? What are dc1 school marks like? How feel about homework?

It depends so much on what your children are like.

I don't understand why you think you private school is going to help DC2? You can do this as you clearly have the resources if you can pay for two to go private. Get the very best SALT you can, an Ed Psych if necessary and work with the primary (look at your council's local offer and see what the process is for SEN support) to implement recommendations. Children with SEN can and do get managed out of private schools. DC1 doesn't sound like she isn't thriving. Again, you have the resources if you want to tutor etc.

It's a non selective private so suspect it's less likely to ditch children who aren't going to get great grades.

Also a bit confused as to why speech delay = won't make the grade. To grimbelina more than OP. DC is only 5!

I think the positives of private education (generally - will vary from school to school) are the fantastic facilities and the range of opportunities available.

In a school of only 450 children across 13 years I cannot see how that could be possible. I would look very carefully at the range of subjects available at GSCSE (I know it's a long way off, but it will have implications lower down the school). And also at how much choice the students get when picking their options.

THey are not going to run a full range of extra curricular if only 2 children in a year want to attend. I doubt they even have enough children to get a full sports team out for each year in eg hockey.

On a social level, I would be concerned at the limited range of friends available to your children. A fall out with a group will leave very few other friends available.

I would also look very carefully at the finances of the school. I would be concerned at such a small set up unless it is part of a larger group of schools or foundation.

I would also say that of course the people whose children go there speak highly of it.

Is it co-ed or single sex?

I went to a very small private school (single form of 15 students per year - 75 in the senior school, less than 200 in the whole school!) and as PP have noted we had significantly fewer opportunities because of the school size. So do bear that in mind.

@Seeline

I think the positives of private education (generally - will vary from school to school) are the fantastic facilities and the range of opportunities available.

In a school of only 450 children across 13 years I cannot see how that could be possible. I would look very carefully at the range of subjects available at GSCSE (I know it's a long way off, but it will have implications lower down the school). And also at how much choice the students get when picking their options.

THey are not going to run a full range of extra curricular if only 2 children in a year want to attend. I doubt they even have enough children to get a full sports team out for each year in eg hockey.

On a social level, I would be concerned at the limited range of friends available to your children. A fall out with a group will leave very few other friends available.

I would also look very carefully at the finances of the school. I would be concerned at such a small set up unless it is part of a larger group of schools or foundation.

My school actually did wind up going bust over the summer a few years after I left, so I second checking their financials. Was a disaster for the kids in y10.

I wading in to say you should try and get an EHCP in place for your youngest. Mine has a speech delay and we got an Educational Health Care Plan in place while she was at nursery, so that when she moved to school the council was obligated to pay for the school to give her additional resources until she caught up, no 'not enough time' about it. A private school won't necessarily sort that out for her.
Regarding the oldest, why don't you pay for some after school activities to stretch and engage them? Things like Chess, foreign language, science etc to see what they're most engaged with. There are youth orgs, like Young Archeologists club, that would allow them to focus on an are of interest better than what a school curriculum would. Agree with others that private at primary level is not going to be that different to state

Totally agree with ThedaBara regards EHCPs - if there is one required, much better to apply while in state.

The choice factor in paying for private doesn't seem to be there as others have pointed out. I would also be concerned about a school which only goes up to 16. Many change schools for sixth form by choice but to be forced to is slightly different particularly as at this stage you have no idea how they would get on at GCSE level and therefore could have their pick of options or maybe not and then you've paid a huge amount of money without the option of schooling to 18.

One of the arguments against paying for a school without a sixth form is that the school won't attract the specialist teachers capable of teaching A' Levels - so you don't get that trickle down of expertise to the lower years. You also might not get the most sought after outside speakers. Or the tech / library / sports investment you'd expect in an independent school that teaches up to 18.

You do need to think hard about what benefits you'd actually be getting for your money. Simply asking for fees doesn't necessarily make a school appreciably better than all the nearest half dozen state schools.

Thanks for all your thoughts, some useful points to consider. We do think the school is too small for our dc especially at secondary level. There is very little choice where we are as we don't want them travelling too far. The school has been going for decades so I would hope it is financially viable but I don't know for sure.

Have taken other messages on board and will continue to pursue SALT and the school.

To answer a few questions the school is co-Ed, 450 children is not a typo and it is impossible to get a private SALT in our area right now for love nor money! But we have made a little progress with her position on the council list.

Older dc isn't supported nor stretched enough in school therefore although she engages and participates well in lessons she isn't inspired and the shine has been taken off of her desire to learn.
She is top in maths but would like extra support (we're told this isn't necessary) and loves writing and art but can't always concentrate due to low level chatter in class.

I think previous comments that we're not actually getting a true choice of school are correct though. Thanks all.

In a similar position with a very bright and sporty dd we moved her to a small one entry form private from a local primary and the difference is night and day. There are so many extracurriculars compared to her previous school, there is serious games lesson twice a week (as opposed to half hearted PE lesson we had before).

It is a school with a very good music program and she does all her music in school. She started learning violin and she shows a really good promise. She sings in a good school choir.

I just cannot believe that all these things can be learned in school instead of dragging a tired child around after they wasted half the day seating in lessons that dont extend them.

We are so much happier as a family. So if it’s a right private I’d say go for it without thinking twice.

You need to be sure you can afford both longer term. Where do they go on to at 16+, how do gcse results compare, do they offer a variety of subjects or does small intake limit what is actually taught, what about extracurriculars and sport, music and drama? Also check attitude towards SEND, do they offer individual support long term or manage out problematic children by secondary age? Is there Learning Support on offer and is it charged extra?