taking children out of school for a holiday - why is our school so anti this?

[tigermoth]

I've just seen this statistic on the 'home' page -last year, 38% of parents took their child out of school for the maximum allowed 10 days of non sick leave.

Now some of this leave will not be for actual holidays, I suppose, but much will. I have been guilty of this - taking our sons abroad out of the high season, because it saved us well over 1,000 pounds.

Anyway, getting to the point and confining my question to primary school pupils, I know our primary school discourages this, as many do. But why exactly? OK if your child is on the run up to SATS I can see why it is not desirable to have a break, but if your child is, say, in year three (no SATS for a few years) what is the problem? Missing two weeks, if attendance is good for the rest of the time, surely isn't going to put your child at a disadvantage.

I just wondered if anyone - teachers or not - could explain.

I agree tigermoth - I always feel a little insulted by this ruling, as if I'm not a responsible enough parent to understand that there are times (like the run up to SATS) when it wouldn't be appropriate to take the children out of school for a week or two. I can only think that schools make the ruling because there are ignorant parents out there who don't consider these things.

I am not a teacher, but I am training to be one. So my answer is not catagorical, but is my opinion only. I am also a mum, and have taken children out of school when it is unavoidable, so I do see both sides of the problem.

I think that the school might be 'anti' because the missing 2 weeks could break up the 'flow' of a series of planned lessons. Lesson 1 on leaves leads on to lesson 2 on trees, on to 'ecology' sort of thing. It could be difficult for you child to 'pick up' on the return from the holiday. Offering to help with this could be a help in getting over the anti bias.

In the secondary school (where I am training) the pressure on time is massive. You have to fit in a huge amount into each lesson just to cover the national curriculum. In addition the pupil might also miss out on course work, which plays a significant role in the final grade.

And I am sure that some parents can be rather tactless in their timing of exams as Spacemonkey said.

My take on this is whilst holiday companies continue to take advantage of whacking up the prices during school holidays, I will have absolutely no qualms about taking 2 weeks off during term time (up until ds/dd starts doing SATS/GCSE's that is) - it makes me mad that a holiday could cost me £100's, if not £1000's more just because it's school holidays.

Anyway, are not holidays educational in themselves? My children return with new experiences of cultures, food and social skills. But I agree that parent should be responsible and consider a schools agenda when booking a holiday.

got to agree with tickle if govt is so concerned maybe they should take the hol co's to task. it goes into the realms of not only a two tier ed system where poor families and children ae discouraged from going to uni - to a two tier hols system where only rich families can afford to go abroad - if we abided by the system rules. i dont even have qualms about takng the kids out when SATS are due - it a fecked up system just more govt bullshit for our kids to cope with - i will have a dilemma when in a couple of years eldest is in gcse mode - deal with that when it comes

I'm a primary teacher and I have to say that i get annoyed when children take time off school. I totally accept the money side of things I'd love to save money on holidays and I do know what the saving are like.

I'm never bothered about children missing any subject apart from maths and language. I plan group work termly, weekly and daily. Since the curriculum is so jam packed and teachers have to work through the workload very quickly children missing for 2 weeks will miss a great deal of work which will probably include knowledge that they will need for the next section of work coming up. Sending work home after a holiday doesn't give the child the extra understanding that the others in the group will have. And giving work to do over the holiday is never completed in the same way as it would be in class.

IF you need to take children out of school the best time (in my opinion) is just before the end of the school year. Most end of term/year exams have been completed however there are lots of fun activities that kids will miss out on during that time.

I've just realised a sound like an old spinster teacher. I'm only 27!!! I've been teaching for 5 years I suppose these opinions are just part of the job.

I completely agree with JoPat (I am not an old spinster teacher either - only 28!!).

As a secondary teacher I completely understand why parents want to take advantage of cheaper holidays but also think that they need to be sensible about the timing - which most of the Mums on here seem to do!!

What is annoying is being told to send work home to cover the missed work. This invariably takes time to organise and is then usually not completed or not attempted at all, making it a complete waste of my time to prepare.

It makes me laugh (in an ironic way) when students are taken out of school 2 weeks before GCSEs start and the parents then wonder why the students have done badly!!!! Although I am sure no one here would do that.

My parents used to take me away during the last month before the year end. They asked one teacher about it and he just said, 'She'll learn far more on holiday than she will here.'

I'm afraid I do think it's a bit irresponsible to take kids on holiday in the term time. I'm an ex-teacher, now a full-time mum of two so I really can see both sides of the issue.

When I was teaching I did find it frustrating if kids were absent for a while (and in the life of a school, two weeks is an age sometimes.) They'd not only miss whatever bit of the curriculum was covered in that time, but also wouldn't be able to be assessed on it, all of which meant a lot of catching up both for them and me.

As to the extortionate prices of holidays in school holidays, well every teacher knows that well. After all, when do they (and their families) have to take their holidays?

Yes, I agree that a holiday in itself is an educational experience. But it doesn't have to be an expensive jaunt to foreign climes. A week in the Lake District, as we have done for the last few years, is every bit as rewarding.

Now ds1 has started school, we definitely won't be taking a holiday in term-time.

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While I totally understand the financial reasons for going on holiday in term time I do agree with JoPat and Ellasmum here. I didn't mind that much if parents took their children away (one less child in the classroom!) but it is incredibly annoying when parents ask you to give them work for their children to do while they are away. It does amount to a lot of extra work on top of the heavy work load teachers already have. I usually refused to do this saying that it would be better for the child to write a diary of their trip so that the child could show the rest of the children when they got back. In terms of catch up work - it has to be done but I would always ask the parents to do it at home with the child so that they can see how much is missed.

The point is that children have so many weeks off school a year with holidays already ...

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Can anybody really remember when they were at infant school, and the educational damage that missing 2 weeks did? I certainly can't.

I do think the situation is slightly different in secondary school compared to primary (correct me if I am wrong though).

I think the idea of a scrapbook is a great one - I did one myself when I went to Australia aged 8. However getting a moody 14 year old boy to do this would be very difficult compared to a younger primary aged child.

If is is essential that a child is taken out of school then the best time is really the end of the school year as long as it is after exams - this way they are often at the least risk of missing vital work. However this is also the most 'fun' time of the year so children as less likely to want to miss it IME.

I have to admit that I am amazed at the number of children that are taken out of school for non essential reasons. I do appreciate the point about the cost of holidays, and own up to only having an 18 month year old so its not a personal issue for me yet but I want to support what our teachers do, in very difficult situations, and I just don't think it gives a good impression to children to allow them to miss school, unless unavoidable.

A good friend of mine is a headmaster at a very popular school which parents clamour to get their children into - he then finds it incredible that they will take their children out for 'holidays' (it is a secondary school) - I also agree that not all parents will bother to make the holiday 'educational'.

Maybe I am forgetful in my 'old age' but I just do not remember it being nearly so 'common' to miss school when I was younger, I remember having to go back for the afternoon after having a tooth out with gas (shows my age!!).

As always, though, its good to read both points of view.

I wouldn't take my children out of school for a holiday (they are 3 and 5). The 5 yr old is very bright for his age, and certainly wouldn't struggle because he's missed something, but I appreciate the fact that the teachers have a planned curriculum for them, and it does make a difference if they miss a fortnight. Also, I think it sends a message to the child that school is not that important, not a priority. Just my point of view, having read the messages below, others obviously feel differently.

We don't take expensive foreign holidays anyway, so the difference in cost is not so great.

I hate crowds, and would love to take the boys off school for the occasional day to go to a museum and avoid the weekend/school holiday crush, and enjoy the quiet days we used to before school - but I don't think it's justifiable.

I am guilty of booking a holiday for 2 weeks in the new year. I admit I used to frown upon other parents taking their children out of school when they have up to 13 weeks off a year. It was a decision that we deliberated over for some time, especially as our child has special needs and has just been statemented and is receiving 1:1 help in school. It's been an incredibly stressful few years having to see numerous specialists for my ds. We only found out that his statement of special needs had been accepted after we had booked the holiday. My dh can only take 1 weeks holiday during the summer holidays as it's his busiest time at work. It was 3 years ago since we last went abroard for only 1 week, so I don't feel guilty about taking a well deserved break. When I went into ds school to tell the secretary (her sister is a friend of mine) she was asking where we are going, and said how good it will be for my ds, she then said she always takes her children during term time as it's so expensive!!!

I'm astonished at that 38% figure. We've once in 22 years taken our children off for a week and also an occasional long weeknd maybe to attend a wedding/funeral down south. Our second child missed so much school due to ill health that we certainly didn't take him off for holidays as well. We holidayed in the UK for many years, often renting a cottage as that is fairy cheap (although getting more expensive, to judge by the latest brochure) and swapping houses through NCT.

Having said which, next September our DD's will go back to school a week late, because we will be in Los Angeles for my son's wedding at the start of term. We'd prefer not to take our chldren out of school but as we had no say on the date we've had to go along with it. I will feel pretty guilty about, even so.

Ooh, I'm sorry but I have to agree with all the (not so old spinster!!!)teachers who have contributed to this thread so far and say that although I COMPLETELY understand the financial implications of going on holiday outside the school holiday periods, I really don't agree with taking children out of school, except for the odd day, unless it is really necessary. If I think of my own kids who are at school (aged 7 and 4), their whole education system is project based (called Primary Years Programme - I'm sure lots of schools follow this), with more or less constant input from the child.

For example, one week they might have to make a model related to their current 'unit', the next, give a presentation about it to their classmates, the following, visit a museum to consolidate the learning so far etc. etc. Even one week away would be difficult to catch up and would involve lots of work for both my kids and their teachers.

Having said that ..... (admission time ), my two are missing next Friday because we are visiting my family in England and could only get a ferry crossing on the Thursday night! I checked with their teachers before hand though, who said all the children were so tired and in need of the half term break that they wouldn't be doing much work on that day anyway. Its tough though and I must admit, the price differences travel companies charge for peak holiday travel are an absolute disgrace. Maybe that why we usually end up in a gite or in really lean times, in a tent!

add me to the people who don't agree with taking the kids out of school to go off holidaying. I think it sends the wrong message about the priority of school to your children, it puts other children whose parents do not / cannot take them on holiday into a disadvantaged position because their better-off peers get more holidays and it makes life difficult for teachers. I appreciate the savings are big, but surely, with holiday dates being available years in advance there are always early-booking discounts, free child places etc? Also, there are so many school holidays, taking an extra 10 days just seems a bit 'greedy'. Sorry to be a spoilsport!

Haven't read the whole thread but I suspect I'm going to have an 'odd ' opinion. I'm a secondary school teacher and I really can't see what all the fuss is about unless it's more than 2 weeks - or maybe if it's every year. OK I'd not take a year 10 or 11 child out so colose to GCSEs- and I'd take a child out in June rather than September ( we tend to be more relaxed in June as everyone is tired and generally the pace is less frenetic)but a week or two off school is neither here nor there for most children in my experience!

I'm afraid I'm another one who ultimately comes down on the side of those who think that time shouldn't be taken in term time. I'm a primary teacher and no, in the broader view of things 2 weeks away from school doesn't really hurt, and yes, one less in the already over-crowded classroom is nice, but it does send the message that school is an optional thing. Increasingly, children are having a half (if not a whole) day for a dentist's appointment. When do these parents think I take my own children to the dentist? And when do I take my holiday? For lots of families, it really is a case of, if they don't go in term time, then they really can't afford to go at all. But for others it is a case of taking advantage of the cheaper times - and I do agree that it's the bloody greedy holiday companies to blame.

I don't want people to think that teachers are so caught up in their work that they don't care about the families and children that they teach. I am fully aware that there are teachers who only worry about getting the work completed but there are also many, many more (like myself and all the other teachers who have written here)who are truely concerned about the children in there class. I get frustrated at children missing work because I see them falling behind, missing out on a great deal of work, (last week my maths group completed a whole unit). I really want to see all my kids doing well. Not for my sake (in Scotland we're not under the same test pressure) but because I want them do be ready for what will come next. In my kids case, Secondary.

I'd love to live in an ideal world where parents give us the benefit of the doubt and not where they automatically assume that we are only in the job for the holidays and the....(I was going to say money!!ha, ha, ha )