Bute House - are tutored girls automatically out?

[NWmum02]

We plan to sit DD (Y1) for Bute 7+ soon. She currently has a tutor as we both work long hours and our nanny can't coach her study.

Bute ask parents (and the girls) to declare if they are tutored and are said to be dead set against tutoring. And I won't (or ask DD to) lie.

If a tutored girl attends their assessment, is she almost automatically out?

To current Bute parents, were most girls who entered the school after 7+ mostly untutored?

I know quite a few girls who went at 7+ and they were tutored but I don’t know how they dealt with that question when asked! Hopefully a current/past parent can help.

I think not automatically out but depends on the reasons for tutoring. They interview parents too. Friend working at similar 7+ boys' prep said it is obvious just from looking at a child's work if they are prepped by a tutor. Think pre-learnt stories for creative writing, ott interview answers, rote learnt maths but can't do the explaining type answers. The tests are designed to see the naturally bright and happy children. The test days are also structured so there are lots of informal chat bits and you just can't get children not to 'tell'. When asked in 5 different ways about tutor, extra work, bond books, tests, having a special teacher to your house etc, it soon all comes out! I would be seriously thinking twice before asking my child to lie to that extent.

When my DD was there quite a few years ago there was obviously the odd tutored girl but majority weren't being tutored- or so it felt like. It is an academic school and so yes parents all seemed quite on top of things and helping with work at home. But back then I didn't notice as much obvious tutoring as at my other DD's London prep.

Like all London schools there is definitely tutoring going on, but they do pull in parents when they hear about it and are concerned it isn't helping. So they are serious about their no tutoring. It is in the contract with the school.

We spoke to the Head when DD was in year 5 and we were worrying about 11+ options. Like you, I work long hours and felt guilty I couldn't do enough with DD myself. The Head was impressively clear in her stance that tutoring only helps for specific reasons, needs to be with someone very experienced and knowledgeable- and linked up/guided by the school- and my DD was already getting a lot more small group and personalised support than many other preps so adding more from a whole new person with their own agenda was only going to overwhelm my DD. I came away completely confident in them and - compared to my other DD's prep- felt they actually had my DD's best interests in mind. She got into a fab top boarding girls' senior- beyond what we ever dreamed of tbh - and we are so glad we trusted.

They don't want coached children as it is totally at odds with their relaxed ethos about the joy of learning and being self motivated. The head talked to me a lot about teachability and how coached children getting different messages and pressure from home are a lot harder to teach to the high level they aim for at bute because there is so much risk taking and thinking outside the box needed.

My DD adored Bute so good luck!

@AzureTurtle
@IrishGirl2020

Thank you so much for the answers.

Do you happen to know if what they mean by "tutoring" is is limited to just academic or exam prep 1:1 tutoring? Or is this in a wider sense and includes any tutoring of a second language or coding, some learning centres such as explore learning (there are loads in N.London), holiday 7+ prep camp, Kumon and etc? I was considering some of these things but should hold fire for the next 8 months..?

Just wondering if we are meant to do absolutely nothing academic outside school (other than intensive tutoring with mummy that I'm not able to provide) or if we are ok as long as it's not 1:1 exam tutoring.

In 2 of the girls I know who went to Bute House it was academic 1-1 tutoring from Rec/Y1 - but that’s pretty normal in our London state school as lots of parents here do state until end of Y2 and then sit the 7+.
The tutoring is not just for exam prep but also to ensure they’re not academically behind their pre-prep peers and also I guess to maximise their academic potential. As I said, I don’t how the parents handled the question about tutoring at interview but just wanted to reassure you that tutored kids have been accepted.
In fact I’m not sure I know any kids from my circle of acquaintances who’ve sat the 7+ without tutoring. It’s very much the norm here especially for the top schools - Kings College, St Paul’s Juniors etc

As IrishGirl said, it is about the reasons behind it. If it is to coach and push to the maximum and learn exam technique to pass the exam then they are concerned about that due to the pressure and whether the school is actually right for your DD. If it is to gently boost and help as your DD is at a state school then they are OK with it.
I think it all comes back to them wanting girls with open minds who will relax and learn, not be pressurised by parents and scared to take risks or do unfamiliar things.

There is LOADS of tutoring there, both at the 7+ entrance and during the following years. Very few admit to it, but so many do it.

As for the 7+, there was a student who stayed out of her then school for over two weeks prepping for Bute...and she got in.

There is tutoring about at Bute, like in every London school. The school discourage it but there is only so much they can do. A whole group of competitive parents were intensely tutoring in my DDs old class. The head pulled them in, asked them why and was genuinely concerned. She reassured them and pointed out the problems. They sharply stopped. I don't think they always intervene like that though but parents definitely hide it as much as possible to avoid being called in. New head starting who might be more relaxed on it.

In my experience, tutored girls are far more likely than non-tutored girls to get in at 7+. At least that is how it was like in the past, of course the school tried to identify "natural talent" and I certainly know some who weren't tutored who did get in, but I also knew many who tutored a lot and got in in even bigger numbers.

Lots of parents lie about tutoring so you may have to do the same if you really want a place.

@sanam2019

In my experience, tutored girls are far more likely than non-tutored girls to get in at 7+. At least that is how it was like in the past, of course the school tried to identify "natural talent" and I certainly know some who weren't tutored who did get in, but I also knew many who tutored a lot and got in in even bigger numbers.

Agree, they tried hard to identify tutored students. However, so many tutored kids were accepted and in fact some of the most heavily tutored kids were accepted.

Looking at schools for younger DD. Did this for older DD quite a few years ago now so have a rough idea but also know things will have changed.

Any up to date experiences of Bute with the new head in place?

Both tutored and untutored will get in.

It's more a case of fairness of assessing the prospective pupils, and honesty/openness of the parents.

Really early days. The new head was distant at first unless you actually meet with her but once you do meet her she is more flexible and friendly to parents (in my one dealing with her about 11+ choices). She was positive and encouraging and seemed ambitious for my DD.
Most teachers have stayed the same despite the changes in top end leadership. More emphasis on happiness/fun and well-being which I hope continues. Younger DD had normal friendship issues and communication was proactive and all efficiently dealt with in a down to earth way.
Dealt with a recent covid outbreak well. Better communication for sure and a parent survey early on so new head clearly wants our opinion and to make change. So far some uniform changes which are much needed- although I'd overhaul the whole thing rather than bit by bit as the whole main uniform is quite out of date.
Still a happy, special school and I get the sense lots of change on the way which probably is needed to keep modernising.

My DD started this term and is very happy there. She was not tutored for the 7+ and given that I was privy to the interview last year (Zoom interviews due to COVID), I would say they would be able to discern if the girl has been tutored. The conversation was very fun for DD, most questions were analytical rather than right/wrong answers.
Having been there a term, the head seems friendly and open to feedback and there seems to be a focus on keeping children happy (still maintaining academic focus). Early days but we are thoroughly happy with the school

Apparently, tutoring at Bute is not such a BIG deal as heard through the grapevine that the previous head who just left has formed her own tutoring agency. Guess she wasn't that against tutoring in principle.

The new head is much better. She listens to students and parents and regularly solicits feedback. Also the school is more transparent. Bute is moving up.

Yes, previous head now charges £5,000 for her expertise.

Interesting this has come up. Since the old head emailed us older parents with her details should we wish to go to her, I thought it would come up at some point. Parents are now talking about it but most laughing at the ludicrousness. It was odd left us feeling there was not trust in the future of the school. I am sure there will be some BH parents getting tutoring from the old head (who over the years actively pulled parents in and told them to stop tutoring) paying the £5k charge. Madness.

But yes- new era for Bute and despite covid holding things in limbo at times (like every school though) there seems to be a sense of calm. DD is happy and excited about things at school - so I'm a happy parent.

There were quite a few changes in teachers with my DD's one leaving at Christmas and I think I read a few others went too. I hope no more go as lots of the fab ones DD had right from Reception who I trusted the most are still there.

@LdnBug

Interesting this has come up. Since the old head emailed us older parents with her details should we wish to go to her, I thought it would come up at some point. Parents are now talking about it but most laughing at the ludicrousness. It was odd left us feeling there was not trust in the future of the school. I am sure there will be some BH parents getting tutoring from the old head (who over the years actively pulled parents in and told them to stop tutoring) paying the £5k charge. Madness.

But yes- new era for Bute and despite covid holding things in limbo at times (like every school though) there seems to be a sense of calm. DD is happy and excited about things at school - so I'm a happy parent.

There were quite a few changes in teachers with my DD's one leaving at Christmas and I think I read a few others went too. I hope no more go as lots of the fab ones DD had right from Reception who I trusted the most are still there.

To be clear, A LOT of BH parents are now £5,000 clients of Mockingbird. Nobody wants to admit it, but there are so many Year 6 parents that are paying her the £5,000.

There was a big scandal at BH a few years back when a bunch of parents tried to "cheat" the SPGS exam and got found out

As for the OP's question which is about 7+, I know a family where the older sister (tutored but because she had some special needs, which the family fessed up to) didn't get in but her younger sister with no tutoring did. Whether the tutoring was the issue in the first case isn't clear - maybe the girl wasn't up to it (though she went on to another fantastic school and got all 9s in her GCSEs), maybe she had a bad day, maybe - as the family
suspected - Bute weren't super supportive of SEN, despite what they told them. Both both girls attended a very bog-standard primary school and the mother told me it was clear in the interview with the head (in the second round) that the school was genuinely trying to sniff out potential rather than take the most polished products.

@ForeverbyJudyBlume how did they try to cheat. I’m shocked and yet totally not surprised…

On the contrary, latest rumour is that the ex-head is shutting down the consultancy b/c so few paying clients left after 11+...

@LondonGirl83 I honestly can't remember the details, it was probably around 10 years ago, but it was something like they hired a tutor from the school in question who had sight of the papers in advance. Obviously everyone got in a lot of trouble when it was discovered

I appreciate it may be different this year due to Covid (or indeed the new HM might be running things differently), but do you usually get an opportunity to visit the school once the 7+ interview has ended? Or is a visit only available if an offer is made?

@njshore

On the contrary, latest rumour is that the ex-head is shutting down the consultancy b/c so few paying clients left after 11+...

Are you sure? What's to shut down? I'm not sure that's right.

Hi, my daughter has been invited to an interview at Bute, and I was wondering if you have any insight into what to expect. I’ve heard from someone that they may ask some math questions, but their website describes the interview as a very informal chat.