Private schools - what do I need to know?

[Random63638]

I went to a terrible comprehensive and had a crap education, currently doing a science based PhD at 40 as I've gradually found my feet and I'm not as daft as it seemed back then. To try and avoid the same disadvantage I'm really thinking of private ed for my only DD (currently age 3). We should have a family income of around £85k once I get a grad job, and maybe £100k after a few years (I have a reasonably in demand profession to fall back on if necessary). Local private school is circa £15k in fees per year, with no bursary with our family income. I think it's affordable, but I don't know what else I might need to budget for, and the ultimate question - is it worth it? Socially is there a snobbishness against kids without very wealthy families? We're not talking Eton here, so hoping we could 'fit in' but am I kidding myself?

As I have no knowledge of the private system at all, can someone school me please?

I am referring to run-through schools here.

There is a whole word of independent school terminology.
Some pre preps (reception to Y2), preps (y3-6) and secondaries are all one school and so children may be guaranteed a place at each stage.

Other schools are just pre-prep and prep with children having to sit the 7+ to enter another independent at Y3. Very stressful as you need to find a school for your child.

Finally there are those that prep at 11+ or 13+, again can be stressful for the same reasons as above!

One main additional cost is the 'fourth term' - ie as the actual terms are so much shorter than state schools, you may find yourself having to pay for several weeks more childcare. Although there will be plenty to choose from during the state school holidays, you may need more expensive temp arrangements in the weeks there is no overlap.

@LIZS thanks for checking the numbers for entrance. I have obviously muddled the intake in my bewilderment.

I'm picking up the many and varied responses and appreciate everyone's thoughts. I don't really have anyone IRL I can ask, except the school of course, and I'd rather have half an idea before doing that, so thanks for your input. Plus they will probably think I'm a loon as this is a 4 year plan if DD started at 7.

Several members of my extended family are/were teachers in state schools and they have very mixed, but very strong options too. It's so hard to know as the majority of people have only experienced one system so can't compare in that sense, or the schools vary so much that comparison is meaningless. For now I think we bank what we have gotten used to paying in childcare and see where we stand in a couple of years.

Not all state schools are shit, not all private schools are good

It's a really good idea to plan and save up if it is something you are considering.
I didn't get a tutor for DS to do entrance exam as I figured if he was bright enough to get in then he would cope with academic standard, and that has turned out to be true so far.
Good idea too to see temperament of child at age 10.
Another reason for choosing private was music and drama opportunities too, sport standards are high too
DD at state school did get maths tutor so there's that option too

@Random63638 the “network” thing really is all balls. At least many decades out of date. I can very much assure you that if anything it’s parental networks that get kids into work experience/internships/work and not networks that the kids have got for themselves from school. Of course you might argue that parents at some private schools might mingle With a type of other parent in certain types of social networks but it really is very nebulous and certainly shouldn’t be one of the factors guiding your decision on what is the best school for your child

@MayIDestroyYou

I don’t have a recent state school experience to compare it to but I’ve been amazed at how much DC1 has learnt in two terms. Huge progress in writing, maths and reading, a lot more than I expected.

First two terms of reception? You surely don't think your child wouldn't have made similar progress at any excellent state school? (Assuming you wouldn't have sent them to a failing state school?) Aren't children simply machines for absorbing learning at that age?

Yes exactly. I was challenging the poster who said that all they would be doing is playing and learning to sit still. I like to think that wouldn’t be the case at any school but as my view is purely based on my child’s experience I thought it only transparent to mention this was at a private school.

both my DD's have been private, for Seniors only. If the school is academically selective but not full, then I would suggest there is sometimes a business decision on admissions as they need to maximise income without lowering the entrance criteria too much.
The choice of State vs Independent is very much a local one and what would suit your DC. I made the decision after DD1 had a disastrous first couple of terms in a run of the mill state and the difference i could see was around the amount of time teachers are allowed to actually get to know your child. In a large state school, it's very hard for the teachers to truly know every child. That said, the SEN provision in some state schools can rival that of the independents as they are not always set up well for that provision.
DD2 goes to a different school but part of the same group and the difference is noticeable. Not necessarily in a bad way, but it is better for her personally. It all depends on your DC and what environment you feel they would thrive in.
I don't feel there is a huge benefit from independent education at primary imo.

I am not wealthy by any standard and I am always concerned about the comparisons of house/holidays/stuff, but that has been ok really, most of the kids are quite grounded. Extra's can be tough, the types of school trips can seem ridiculous sometimes but there are usually a good range for you to be able to choose appropriately. Uniform is expensive and exclusive..... £80 for a blazer, £30 a jumper, £50 a skirt plus all the PE kit - initial outlay can be £400+.
All in all, i'd just say do lots and lots of homework!

Maybe this worthy of a new thread but I'll try here first. What percentage of your household net income goes towards school (per child)?

@VanCleefArpels
Very true - our kids are at state but we have lots of friends with children at fee paying, and my husband has 'one of those jobs' and is inundated with requests from our friends who would like their children to do work experience with him. You can't arrange work experience with someone like him through a school as they usually only allow University students, but you can if you know him (and chuck me a box of chocs maybe so that I can nudge him!!!) then you can usually wangle it!

@Random63638

Maybe this worthy of a new thread but I'll try here first. What percentage of your household net income goes towards school (per child)?

6.5% per child not including wrap around.

It's 11% for both though due to sibling discount.

DH and I were the same - crappy comps for both of us.
We did state and private for our children and even the worst private school was better than either state. I want breadth, decent teaching directed for my child. You don’t get that in a state school.
We’ve also never had to pay for an extra support if they needed it.

Both DH and I have knowledge of state and independent. We are moving both dc to independent from Sept this year. They are currently in lovely, small state primary which has been fab. However, older dc will be looking at secondaries next year and we aren't running risk that our closest school in catchment is one we do not want them to go to.

I think you've had some good advice here already. All independents vary in absolutely everything: results, ethos, aims, pricing (and what's included) etc.
Keep in mind where your dc will be heading for senior school. Would you rather 3-18 all through, or is there a senior school you have in mind (in which case check which is their feeder school as this will be beneficial in the future). Would you wish to look at scholarships / bursaries in the future - what do your chosen schools offer?

What core hours and activities are included in the fees - our fees will include wrap around care and all activities (and breakfast/lunch/tea) bar extra music lessons. SEN provision is charged as extra at the school we have chosen.

In the end, a lot comes down to preference. We looked at the focus of chosen school which has a strong sport focus but is also traditionally academic. We also just had a good 'feel' about the place, and felt that not only would our children do well there and be supported in their strengths, but they will be happy and we wanted to provide them with as many opportunities as we can.

@underneaththeash
I want breadth, decent teaching directed for my child. You don’t get that in a state school

I think that is unhelpful stereotyping. As others have said on this thread (and numerous others), there are good and bad schools in each sector. And schools - at primary and secondary - that are a better or worse fit for an individual child depending on that child's needs at the time.

OP, my only other addition to your thread is to be careful not to assume your experience 25 years ago at a "terrible comprehensive" is in any way indicative of the education your DC may receive at a good state secondary nowadays. I would encourage you to visit your local schools and look into the results they obtain (remembering they are non-selective so worth drilling specifically into value-add scores etc)

@underneaththeash
Not helpful stereotyping - you must have had very average state schools if they weren’t offering a good breadth of teaching and extra curricular. Our comp is fabulous and outdoes the third tier fee paying that is also on our doorstep every year at A Level results. Also has a brilliant array of sport and other extra curricular. Please don’t lump all state schools in one stereotype and then others won’t lump all fee paying schools in one stereotype. You can’t begin to compare Eton with a third tier on its knees day school, why would you. Keep it school specific.

Slight highjack... Can we discuss private vs state senior school a little more?

DD is accepted to an outstanding state school and also a very good private school. We can afford private.

Pro with State: closer, diverse, good education.
Con: larger class size of 30 girls. Small facilities. No lunch room. Need to go to the park for many outdoor sport.

Pro with Private: smaller class size, more choice of extracurriculars, good education, larger school grounds.
Con: not as close as State, not very diverse, heard it can be cliquey, more handholding

I know a good problem and choice to have but help!

Unless the GCSE results are wildly different, there is massive value in “close, diverse, good education”. You could use your money for extra curricular sport and any tutoring required along the way and enriching experiences like travel, theatre etc

In my view, it's not just about looking at the schools on offer, it's also about looking at the lifestyle as a whole. For example, lots of PP have talked about choosing a good state school if you've got one, and then supplementing the extra-curricular side. Well that's fine, but it depends on other factors. Families living in or near a big town or city might have fabulous opportunities they can buy into - families in more rural areas might not. Similarly, you need to look at transport options and other commitments. So for example, where we live, a lot of parents who could afford private choose to go for a grammar place and 'fill in' with additional extra curricular activities outside school. But we're relatively rural, so activities are often fairly far flung, and there's bugger all public transport. So doing this involves a LOT of picking up and driving around - friends (and it tends to be mums) I know are constantly haring around after school to go to one club or another, and there are often clashes with siblings' activities. Whether or not you're willing/able to do this will depend hugely on your working life (if you work) and your other commitments. For us, the fact that there's so much on offer at school, included in the fees, within a very easy journey from home, is worth an awful lot compared with the difficulty of arranging our jobs and other stuff so that we can transport the children to activities. There's also the 'effort' factor for the child to consider. Granted, if a child is really talented at football or singing, say, then they're likely to be motivated enough to join an outside club and attend regularly, and you'll be happy to pay the costs. But if you've got a child who's a bit less talented or a bit less confident, or who isn't sure yet what they might be interested in, then the ability to try out lots of different sports, drama, music etc at school, with friends, at any level, with no initial cost, difficulty or commitment, both inside and outside the curriculum, is really valuable in encouraging them to have a go and to help explore what their interests might be.

I'm absolutely not saying that private is always better, but I think you need to look at it in the round. It's not always as simple as saying 'go for the state option and supplement with extra activities'.

@nagrama
You talk a lot of sense but actually in our case I find the opposite to be true, mine love having different pockets of friends at different clubs/activities, it really broadens their lives and if they are struggling with a school friendship for a while it means they have other people they can enjoy time with. It feels a lot more like Uni where you have separate pockets of friends from course/societies etc, and I think sometimes doing everything with just your school friends can make some children nervous about getting stuck in with new people. I know mine will go off to Uni happy to muck in with anything because they have been a part of so many different club communities.

Our DC were privately educated. Our house is small and scruffy compared to the majority of their friends' houses (some live in mansions, some have castles, many have second homes and ski chalets.) Their friends don't give a monkeys. They are lovely people. They have supported both my DC through tricky times. They have during lockdown happily hung out in our ridiculously unkempt garden for hours at a time because they enjoy DC's company. Not a hint of snobbishness about any of them. That might not be true of the atmosphere in all private schools but it certainly was in theirs.

Like you I went to a rubbish comp and it held me back because the ethos of 'don't get above yourself, don't work hard, don't be clever' was so ingrained. DC's friends encourage each other to work hard and aim high. They deeply admire the ones who get good grades. It was the right choice for us.

@Aboutnow and that's why it's so dependent on individual circumstances. It depends on practicalities and availability. I really wanted DS to keep doing the external club he was doing, as I could absolutely see the benefit of him having a separate group of friends, but it closed down through lack of numbers and there's no alternative within reach.

Aboutnow- but equally you can do those clubs as well as state or private school. Same as some state school children will only mix with children from their school. I think that aspect is really more down to the parents

@Cocoloda Financially for us it was either fee paying school or state school plus educational trips/holidays/skiing/clubs/museums etc and luckily our state schools are cracking! I work from home so I can manage all the ferrying but both my parents worked very long hours and I went to fee paying so I can see advantage if you have late work hours.

I find that many parents on Mumsnet who are pro privates make their decision based on th experience they had many moons ago not realising times have changed and the state of state education is the best it's ever been. On the other hand Pro state parents more than often have the benefit of an outstanding state school close by so it's easier to be pro state if you have that option. Such a tricky situation.

@Elij00 I think you're probably right about those who hold the most polarised views. But there are loads of people who take a more balanced view and wouldn't describe themselves as either 'pro' or 'anti' private or state. I had a very good state education. My children went to an OK if not brilliant state primary. They now go to a private secondary. Their state secondary option was good and I would have been quite happy with it, but I liked the private option even more so that's what we went for. I wouldn't describe myself as 'pro' or 'anti' either option. (However I also don't agree that state education is universally the best it's ever been. Some of it is great - some of it isn't - and the funding problems over the last few years have been appalling.)