Private schools - what do I need to know?

[Random63638]

I went to a terrible comprehensive and had a crap education, currently doing a science based PhD at 40 as I've gradually found my feet and I'm not as daft as it seemed back then. To try and avoid the same disadvantage I'm really thinking of private ed for my only DD (currently age 3). We should have a family income of around £85k once I get a grad job, and maybe £100k after a few years (I have a reasonably in demand profession to fall back on if necessary). Local private school is circa £15k in fees per year, with no bursary with our family income. I think it's affordable, but I don't know what else I might need to budget for, and the ultimate question - is it worth it? Socially is there a snobbishness against kids without very wealthy families? We're not talking Eton here, so hoping we could 'fit in' but am I kidding myself?

As I have no knowledge of the private system at all, can someone school me please?

But you can’t get an EHCP based on ‘not meeting expected levels for Y2’, can you? There’s more to an EHCP than that? I know my niece would not be getting a 1 to 1 in state school although she would be one of the small groups of children who get targeted interventions. But the prep school have said they want her to have a 1 to 1 next term.
Sorry to de rail OP!

There is more to it than that - of course.

Parents can decline the 1:1 recommendation just as easily as the local authority can decline the EHCP application.

But the key thing about EHCPs is not to assume - just apply. They may simply approve a provision of 1 hr SALT, for example - not huge.

MayIDestroyYou was having just this conversation with my dad last night, because my nieces are at a prep school that frankly seems a bit crap - my SIL says it’s ‘nicer’ than state but hasn’t solved any of their academic issues eg still ended up with needing a maths tutor for their older DD - anyway, my dad reckons you should only send your kids to a private school that people have heard of. Bit tongue in cheek but rings true for our family experience.

@skeggycaggy, not to worry, it's interesting to know. I have a learning difficulty that I only got to the bottom of when I started my PhD (as I said my school was terrible) so I have a niggling doubt I may have passed that on. Good to know what support there might be.

Maybe I should be clear that the 'local' school is Newcastle Royal Grammar. I'm not keen on the others nearby (single sex/religious) so I think that's the option without moving. Local state schools are all rated well, for reference.

@LIZS

Is it through to secondary or a prep school where they move at 13+? Seems very odd to only intake 12 at 11. Small schools often struggle to survive.

I would expect that they have a lot of girls leaving at 11+, so have space for a 13+ cohort.

What is prep? I've obviously heard the term but not registered what it means.

@Random63638

What is prep? I've obviously heard the term but not registered what it means.

It stands for preparatory - Years 3 - 6 for girls and Years 3 - 8 for boys. Infant schools is know as pre-prep, and secondary as senior school.

I went to a private school, as did my two sisters. I loved school but I'll never know if it was because it was private.

In terms of education I'm not convinced it's worth it, but very much depends on what state schools are like near you.

DH went to state and he is the one with a much better job.

Girls can stay to 13/y8 at a couple of local preps. In practice majority of girls, and increasingly boys, move at 11/y6 unless aiming for traditional public schools which start at y9. Op, what age group does your local one cater for? Is it junior and secondary, or just up to 13?

Despite my miserable state education I have worked all over the world and earned well, so I know it can be done. I'm worried that things are getting tougher work wise, and networks can be invaluable. I'd be really annoyed if I thought I could have given DD an opportunity that would set her right for life.

The important point with preps, OP, is that you must choose one that has established success at preparing your child for the senior school(s) you want.

When I first came to MN more than a decade ago, I swear half the education board was disgruntled parents who'd handed over their platinum credit cards for a smart uniform and boasting rights - and then discovered that the fancy prep was entirely ignorant regarding their preferred senior school and wouldn't do anything to help the child get into it.

I went to a private school from 3-16, and honestly. While smaller class sizes meant we were all afforded more time and support, I discovered I did only marginally - if at all - better academically than many of my peers at a (very good) state sixth form in Winchester.

Financially, sending me to that school nearly destroyed my parents, especially after my dad lost his business but felt we were 'locked in' to the school by then. My uniform alone cost £1000 to buy in Year 7, and around an extra £500 each year until Year 11, which had a completely different uniform in itself. Swimming lessons, exchange trips, music, dance and drama lessons all add up very quickly.

I'm a teacher in a state school now and very resolute that - if and when I have children- they'll be in state education with extra 'top up' tutoring if needed.

Whatever you decide, I would just advise on factoring in an extra 10-15% in case of unforeseen costs.

*Honestly wouldn't do it

Ah, so they cover age 7 to A-level, just one school. Newcastle Royal Grammar, in case that detail got lost in my posts. I should have said at the beginning really!

Hi OP, I have experience of both state and private school for my DC.

IME there is extra charge for after-school activities, but if you are going to need after-school childcare anyway I found that the wraparound care on offer was better than at the state primary (more flexible and more varied - but also more expensive). Obviously the school facilities are free when used as part of the school day, eg in PE or drama lessons.

Personally I don't think it's worth paying private school fees if you have a bright child and a good state school. The class sizes are smaller, but personally I didn't find that made a lot of difference to my DC. And the facilities are nice, but you can always take your child to extracurricular activities outside school instead. However, if the local state schools are poor or your child needs a bit more help then private may well be worth it.

Snobbishness wasn't a problem for us. May depend a bit on the school.

The extra curricular trips were a nightmare. I remember one year there was a volleyball trip that meant going to the Bahamas. Lots of expensive ski trips and it was upsetting when classmates couldn't afford it.

Nearly everyone had a pony too.

The huge benefit is really at secondary so if you are concerned about the financial side I would consider state until the end of year 5. Many kids will be doing this.

A fee paying school might have nicer surroundings (though £15k won't buy much in the way of green acres and golden stone) - but all she's going to be doing is playing, and learning tolerance and how to sit still and quiet

Based on DC1s first two terms at a private school this is definitely not the case. I don’t have a recent state school experience to compare it to but I’ve been amazed at how much DC1 has learnt in two terms. Huge progress in writing, maths and reading, a lot more than I expected.

Check what's included.

Our fees (primary school) include lunch, a trip per term and 2 out of school clubs per week plus gymnastics and swimming. Other wrap around care is paid separately. So our school is excellent value, but another local school has all those as additional compulsory costs but a similar price per term.

Some have longer holidays, but not all (ours doesn't). Some have a very, very expensive uniform -£100 for blazer for reception! Ours doesn't!

Also find out what you are paying for. We wanted smaller classes, a family feel, individuality celebrated. We weren't bothered so much by academic attainment and wanted a school which instilled a love of learning.

Not all private schools are the same, and different schools suit different children, it's a very individual decision.

We haven't encountered snobbiness.

On the other hand, Stellaris22, after five years experience of probably the most well known school in the country - I can honestly say neither we nor the child in question experienced any upset over not going on ski trips or other expensive optional jaunts. Huge school; only a handful ever went on any trip. And none of our teen's friends had any interest whatsoever in ponies!

I guess schools are just not all the same.

I don’t have a recent state school experience to compare it to but I’ve been amazed at how much DC1 has learnt in two terms. Huge progress in writing, maths and reading, a lot more than I expected.

First two terms of reception? You surely don't think your child wouldn't have made similar progress at any excellent state school? (Assuming you wouldn't have sent them to a failing state school?) Aren't children simply machines for absorbing learning at that age?

@Random63638

The school near us has an age 7 and age 11 intake, but only an extra 12 pupils at 11, as far as I can see, so we might have to get in early. Still, leaves 4 years of saving now nursery funding has kicked in!

Are activities provided by the school but charged extra? The facilities are amazing.

The website says 72 external students join at y7, with 72 from junior school. The extra 12 is at y5. Y5 and 6 must have 24 per class.

I would say go to local state primary and see how they and you are doing for year 7 entry to private . I have one DC at local state doing great and thought next one would follow but they just seemed to need more support and the local independent suits them down to the ground and we could just afford it. It really depends on personality of child too if they would cope with more academic environment. Opportunities and teaching is really excellent at private.

Most of the 'normal' private schools like you have listed are people like yourself! So not especially snobby, more middle class and can just afford it over their local comp.

People are right to say factor above inflation fee increase each year (on top of the stated increases as age increases). Some have madly expensive uniforms (genuinely £500-£1000 for full kit out but you can often get a lot second hand and not all do. There will (covid allowing) be expensive trips once you get to secondary, but you don’t have to do those and they’re usually only for a small group anyway. More childcare needed for longer holidays is probably a major extra cost when they’re young, although potentially offset by better wraparound care in termtime.

It’s hard to say what snobby means to people. I don’t know RGS well but knew some people who went there and would be surprised if it was very snooty. You need to go and see the kids, staff, parents and whether you like their vibe. As a fairly posh, privately educated parent, when looking for my kids I was uncomfortable with the feel of some schools and liked others, but couldn’t have told that from the website or mumsnet. The key question for me was did the older pupils seem like young people I’d like my children to turn into/be friends with, and in a few schools, although I loved the facilities and the results, I thought actually, no, they seem too unaware of their privilege, too glossy, or too scared to be different. And it’s worth bearing in mind that the state system is very different from 30 years ago. If you have a good secondary near you, don’t assume it’s not the best option in terms of happiness/academic outcomes and value for money. This year our local state comp got more kids into Oxbridge than the two highly selective private schools, but they don’t have rolling playing fields, classes of 15 or much Latin or Greek. Depends what you want and what you’ve got available to you.

Several PPs have suggested going state for primary and private for secondary. Whilst I see the benefit of that, you need to consider it in the context of the schools you are applying for. Some schools have a huge number of applicants at 11+ compared with 7+, partly because parents are prepared to send their children further afield for secondary. Therefore, it may be extremely difficult or perceived to be extremely difficult to get in at 11+, which will add extra stress on both the child and parents.

If you can get in at 4+ or 7+ with just gentle work then it is much easier with no mental toil. At 4+ will be just lots of talking to your child, reading books together, listening, drawing pictures - all the things you would do anyway.
At 7+ it is again lots of reading to expose to interesting vocab, simple two step maths problems. No tutoring needed.