Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Stockpot Appeal support

30 replies

Sbashir · 18/03/2021 07:48

Please could I have some help from Admissions in 2010 you helped another parent to win her appeals case and I am the same issue with Stockpot council. I have applied late but live in the catchment area I am aware they other people have been given a place out of catchment. I have checked and they have placed my son at the bottom of the waiting list. I have emailed them saying they are not following the School code admissions but they say this does not matter and if they move him up it will disadvantage other students. I feel they are breaking the law but they will not change their mind any advice on this would be great thank you.

OP posts:
KihoBebiluPute · 18/03/2021 09:21

Tagging @prh47bridge and @admission for you to help draw their attention to the thread.

It is probably correct that you didn't get the place in the first round because you applied late. Your position in the waiting list should be solely based on how well you meet the admissions criteria now compared to other people on the waiting list so you should not be lower on the waiting lost than someone who is lower priority than you according to those criteria. The fact that out of catchment people have got places is irrelevant if they applied on-time and there were places left once the on-time in-catchment applications had all been assigned. The illegality would be if a place becomes available to be given to someone on the waiting list and at that point they fail to follow the rules - if no place becomes available you may not have much luck.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2021 09:49

It is correct that you didn't get a place on initial allocations. However, they should not have put your child at the bottom of the waiting list. Your child's position on the waiting list must be determined purely by the admission criteria, not by when you applied. Remind them that paragraph 2.14 of the Admissions Code specifically bans them from giving priority based on the date the application was received.

If they admit someone from the waiting list when your child should have been higher priority you should have no trouble winning an appeal. I will, of course, be happy to help if it comes to that.

Sbashir · 18/03/2021 16:17

Thank you both for responding I have emailed them telling them they should place him higher on the list and sent them the school admissions code quoting 2.14 they simply didn't respond. I have contact the school and nobody from the waiting list has be admitted.

Today I have also emailed ACE and department of education waiting for them to respond. If you have any other advice please let me know. I will keep you posted.

The school he is placed at is inadequate so we are really stressed out.

OP posts:
KihoBebiluPute · 18/03/2021 16:44

@Sbashir you are allowed to be on the waiting list for more than one school. Make sure you are on the waiting list for every school that you would find preferable to the offered school. The more schools you can be on the waiting list for, the higher the chances that you can improve your offer.

This is a marathon not a sprint. Calm down and dial back the stress, nothing will happen for a few weeks but it is likely there will be some movement on the waiting lists before September and although they haven't acknowledged your letter they would be opening themselves up to unfortunate legal consequences if they ignored it so the chances are that in a couple of months there will be a place offered to waiting list and it might come to you.

Meanwhile - Accept the offer for the offered school, this does not affect the outcome of any appeal or any waiting list allocation and you don't want to be left without a place anywhere come September. Do check out the offered school - what are the actual reasons it is considered inadequate? Some schools get rated inadequate due to shortcomings which honestly aren't going to be a big deal for some pupils so it might not be so bad. Or even if it is a problem that would be relevant for your DC at least you know that they will be working towards improving that issue and will be inspected again soon. Some schools rated "outstanding" haven't been inspected for 10 years and may have unidentified serious issues, so you can't rely on ratings.

prh47bridge · 18/03/2021 16:56

I doubt you will get anywhere with the DfE. I would be very surprised if they got involved. If their admission arrangements say they put late applicants at the end of the waiting list it would be a matter for the Schools Adjudicator. If they don't say that in their admission arrangements but do it anyway it can only be sorted out by appeals. There is also, of course, the possibility that the person you've spoken to got it wrong, in which case there is nothing to sort out.

Sbashir · 25/03/2021 10:15

Hello hope your well? So today I have checked his place and 5 students have been let in, so do we have case now?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 25/03/2021 10:34

If you should have been ahead of them based on the admission criteria you have a case. However, if they were all in catchment and live closer to the school than you, you still don't have a case.

Sbashir · 25/03/2021 11:02

Ok thanks is there away of finding this information out?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 25/03/2021 11:32

Ask the council. They won't be able to tell you anything that identifies the pupils admitted but they should tell you which category they were in and the distances involved. If they don't immediately answer, tell them that you need this information to prepare your appeal.

admission · 25/03/2021 15:29

Having checked the official admission information for Stockport, I confirm that as a late application you would have been considered at the bottom of all "one time" applications. However as soon as the places were allocated, then you should have been put on the waiting list in the admission criteria order, not at the bottom of the list.
I would suggest that you ask the school admission office to confirm in writing where you are on the waiting list. If they still come back saying in writing that you are at the bottom of the waiting list, then you should firstly write back and say that they appear to be breaking the school admission code and that you want them to confirm in which documentation it says that you would be at the bottom of the waiting list. Secondly you should then appeal based on the LA having failed to abide by the school admission code. This does of course assume that if you were places in the waiting list in admission criteria order you would have been offered a place.

Sbashir · 26/03/2021 07:31

Thank you both I will follow this advice and then get back to you with the results.

OP posts:
Sbashir · 26/03/2021 17:24

Hi I have followed your advice and a senior officer is looking into this! Not sure if that's positive or negative? Once again thank you so much I will keep you posted.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 26/03/2021 19:23

It should be positive. They should know the rules. If this is the school or someone junior in the admissions team, they should be able to fix it.

Sbashir · 02/04/2021 10:56

The senior officer responded below not good:

Dear Mr Bashir,

This principle has been legally tested by the Office of the School’s Adjudicator regarding Stockport’s admissions arrangements. The OSA found no fault in the way Stockport sets out its admissions arrangements.

The contention and justification is as follows:

Late applications or changes of preference i.e. those received after the closing date will be considered after all those received by the closing date. The Admission Authority reserves the right to accept an application as if it were received on time if there are exceptional circumstances i.e. the family have moved into Stockport and could not have applied for a place earlier or there are specific reasons for the late application or change of preference. If this takes place after the offer date, applicants will be placed on the waiting list* at the appropriate point

Section 2.14 states the example of where it would be unlawful for an Admission Authority to use the date of application to place a child on the waiting list i.e. a child moving into the area of a Local Authority. In such circumstances, Stockport would not consider such an application as ‘late’ i.e. received after the published closing date for applications because the parent would not have been in a position to make the application at an earlier stage. The application would be considered in line with the published admission arrangements and placed accordingly on the waiting list if a place were not available at the preferred school.

Stockport considers that an application is ‘late’ where there are no significant circumstances preventing the parent from making an application by the published closing date. This is consistent with the statutory requirement to have a published closing date and to ensure that all parents have fair and equal opportunity to access the school admissions process outlined in the Code.

The actual date the application is received is not used to determine the allocation of a school place or placing on the waiting list. The published closing date is the only date used to determine the cut-off point when the process of allocating school places is made. All applications received after the closing date must therefore, be considered after that point in line with the published oversubscription criteria and allocated places or placed on the waiting list, after those received by the closing date, in oversubscription criteria order.

Stockport Council acts in accordance with its published admission arrangements and is not in breach of the School Admissions Code in processing late applications.

OP posts:
Sbashir · 02/04/2021 10:58

I asked about the last child you was let in response below

Dear Mr Bashir,

The system is live and does not hold contemporaneous data so I cannot tell you what happened or has changed between one date and the next. I can inform you of the category and distance of the child last in i.e. the child lowest down on the school oversubscription criteria and their distance? It was under the category of ‘Any other children (distance) 1.827miles

We are in catchment and closer than the child above do we have a case now?

Thanks

OP posts:
Sbashir · 02/04/2021 11:01

I did double check and we are still at the bottom of the waiting list Sad

OP posts:
LIZS · 02/04/2021 11:18

Presumably that child was in the first round of admissions ie. an on time applicant. Unless you know for certain they were one of the five later applicants offered since 1st March it does not help.

prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 11:35

On the contrary, decision ADA1791 (to which they refer) found against Stockport and told them they needed to change their admission arrangements. They did so but in a way that allowed them to interpret them as they say here. The Adjudicator clearly did not understand the intent of the weasel words Stockport used.

Paragraph 2.14 of the Admissions Code is clear and does not contain the words they preface "i.e." - that is their interpretation and is not supported by the actual words of the Code. They must rank the waiting list purely in accordance with the oversubscription criteria. Their treatment of late applicants is not part of their oversubscription criteria and therefore cannot justify putting late applicants at the back of the queue.

Sbashir · 02/04/2021 11:39

Thanks @LIZS I was waiting for @prh47bridge and @admission to respond as they have had a similar case in the past

OP posts:
Sbashir · 02/04/2021 11:42

Thanks @prh47bridge please could I ask what should my next steps be? I am so grateful for your help and as soon as I read this I thought the same

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 11:43

I think you are going to have to appeal. Stockport are so wedded to their view that they are only going to change when forced to do so.

Sbashir · 02/04/2021 11:48

Thanks I have started the appeal and agree I will need to go to the appeal with this. It's making sure I convince the panel!

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 12:04

Happy to help in any way I can. I was involved in the case that led to the schools adjudicator's decision back in 2010. I am furious that, 11 years on, Stockport are still blatantly ignoring the Admissions Code.

Sbashir · 02/04/2021 12:12

I wish you could attend the appeal with me? As you know so much or could have all the information about your case in 2010?

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 02/04/2021 12:21

PM me

Swipe left for the next trending thread