Help - how much choice do you give to child?

[bloomingbarbara]

DS, 11, has got a place for September at a state grammar school, if we want it (not accepted yet). He is currently at a small independent prep school which he is very happy at. He has always said he doesn’t mind if he stays at prep (which goes to end of year 8) or go to the grammar. However, in the last couple of weeks he has expressed a preference to stay at his prep. He says he likes being part of a small class where he knows everyone, and he doesn’t want to go to a bigger school. Tonight when I said I thought we’d have to accept the grammar school place he burst into tears about it. He’s not an anxious or teary child usually.

The thing is that we cannot afford independent senior school! We’d have to be begging for bursaries etc. Alternatively he could go to a local comp from year 9 - none of which are bad schools so I’m not anti this but is it mean to send him from prep to comp? He could try for a Year 9 grammar place but it’s very unlikely.
I just don’t know what’s for the best! I feel 2+ years is a long time and so much could change but also I don’t want to kick myself that we gave up a grammar school place.
What would you do?

ps I know this is MASSIVELY a first world problem!!

pps we are not in a super competitive area for grammar or independent schools.

He’s just freaking out, perfectly natural
However, the longer you leave him there the harder it will get when he does have to leave
Y7 is a good time to start a new school

Sorry OP but I would overrule him in these circumstances. Giving up the grammar place and him having to join a comp in year 9 (ie an unusual entry point) would not even nearly be worth the benefits of an extra 2 years at the prep.

Much better to make the move for year 7 than for year 9, even if you could guarantee a place in your choice of state school in year 9.

If it's only recently he's started worrying about it, bear in mind that they're all a bit unsettled with the return to school at the moment; that's enough change, without thinking about changing school as well. It might be best to leave talking about it for a week or two.

Hopefully as activities begin to open up you might be able to find ways for him to meet other kids who will be going to the grammar. Does he know any already? Can you engineer a bit of meeting up, even if it has to be playing Minecraft online?

Moving from independent into a state school in yr9 is not a wise move. Poor child will be like a fish out of water.
Year7 will have students entering from multiple schools. He'll soon settle and be very happy with his new posse.

You are assuming there will be spaces in y9. There might not be. He might be travelling miles to a school you don’t want.

My DD2 went to a prep where lots left at 13. However a chunk left at 11. Yes, you miss the last two angst ridden years at prep where multiple exams are taken, scholarships are lost and won and parents are full of worry about senior school offers etc. You have circumvented all of that because you cannot afford it but you are also not in that “club”. So the real point of being at the prep isn’t there for you. Would he be the only one going to a comp? What’s the point of him being out of the loop regarding the future school hype? He won’t be engaging in what makes the prep tick for the next two years. It’s a huge waste of money.

The grammars I know are very big on sport. All are state grammars here compete against independent schools and win. Especially boys rugby teams. There are also teams run by local clubs he could join. Sport is easy to sort out in most areas even if the school is a bit light on it.

I think it’s important to move on and not get sucked in to small classes and a cosy school life. Time to move school like the vast majority in the country. He will enjoy the grammar if he gives it a chance. You should encourage positive thinking and not ever think a comp will do. Why would you pay all these years if you now don’t have any ambition for him? What about him having ambition for himself? I would do a bit of work on that too.

Don't let you child make this decision, he doesn't have the life experience to do so! He's basing it on what is safe and familiar at the moment, not in the future.

I moved mine the other way mid primary. Although they would have much preferred at the time to stay with their friends at local state primary as it was all they knew, once decision was made it gave them some focus and they were fine. Most children are more adaptable than we give them credit for.

My eldest boarded at a choir school in a grammar area. A lot of students left to the grammars after year 6, in fact most years they went from two classes to just one in year 7. Some new students would move in for year 7 and 8. The choristers who had to stay through to year 8, knew that they had very limited chances of a grammar place for year 9 (if they were local). Girls sometimes did get in, boys never did, due to the quirks of good day school places (grammar or independent) in the area. Many moved on to boarding senior schools.

Only allow your son to stay at prep with a very good plan for senior school already in process and supported by your prep school. Some pre-tests will have already happened and most of the rest will be coming up in the next 2-3 terms. I would imagine your prep is used to a lot leaving after year 6 - in fact your son may not appreciate who is staying and who is leaving at this point. The prep may be able to guide you as to plausible senior school options that are likely to be able to offer bursaries, if you want to consider that option. But, bird in the hand and all that - I'd move him to the grammar for year 7.

I'm strongly in favour of involving children in school decisions for secondary, but there is a limit to how far this should go. Wanting our youngest to "own" decisions when he was 10 was a mistake and nearly a bad one (led to a more difficult 13+ transfer process than it needed to be, although with a great outcome in the end).

Good luck establishing confidence with your decision as a family. And do speak with your prep about it if you do have any doubts.

It is tricky OP, but in your position the grammar sounds like the best option. My Dd1 has just got a place at our local girls state school which she is happy with as quite a few girls from her school will be going there. She's also on the waiting list for a grammar but is less keen as she won't know anyone there and it's further away. I will take her choices into account but think she is too young to realise the opportunities the grammar will give her. At the moment she is just focussed on what she knows, and it's hard to imagine anything else when you've been with the same people for the last 7 years.

Firstly, accept the grammar place now. If you change your mind later you can give up the place but if you give it up now it’s gone for good.

I do think children should have some say on where they do to high school but if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. You’d be mad to give up a guaranteed place now for the hope that you might get a year 9 space or you might get a bursary later on. Most likely is you’ll end up having no choice but to send him to the comprehensive which I’m sure he’ll be even less happy about!

And you might not even get the comprehensive of your choice if it’s full.

Additionally: why send DC to a 13 plus prep if you cannot afford secondary private? Surely this situation was always going to arise if you didn’t win the lottery? I think making sure DS knew the situation and was comfortable with it should have been a topic of conversion much earlier.

Thanks all! We have been talking about it for a long time, this isn’t a sudden decision on a whim. It’s just that DS has never seemed to mind either way, until reality set in and he actually got offered a place at the grammar! He has friends going there too. I’m sure he’ll get used to it and like a few of you say, it’s normal to feel anxious about a new school.

@PresentingPercy we have no regrets at all about choosing the prep school we did, it’s been amazing for both my children. 50% of the kids leave at the end of Year 6 so it’s very common and doesn’t render the whole experience pointless. Also, your comment about me not having any ambition for him is hilarious - how on earth do you get that from a few posts on mumsnet? 🤣

My initial post was an emotional reaction to seeing DS upset but my head not heart will make the right decision. ☺️ Lots of you have given really sensible advice, thank you!

I meant it wasn’t great ambition to let him go to the local comp after you’ve spent a small fortune on his education and will have passed up a grammar school place. You cannot afford an independent school so presumably you wanted the grammar. You didn’t want the comp but now because DS is unsure, it might now be ok. I paid for DD2 to go to a very good prep and I wouldn’t have sent her to a standard comp after that. In fact no one did. So why has your ambition for him diminished so much that the grammar is even being questioned. He’s not the only DD leaving you now say! So what big deal is this about staying? I’m truly puzzled.

DD? DS obviously.

@PresentingPercy I said before others were leaving. Yes, the grammar makes sense as he is academically able and it’s the nearest school to our house! We still think it’s a great option and feel really fortunate to have it.
There’s no ‘big deal’ as you put it, he’s just a young boy having a wobble about the leaving the school he loves. It made me doubt our decision for a moment, hence coming on here for second opinions. That’s ok right? I’m sorry it’s so puzzling for you.

I'd not move a child from a small prep to a big comp in Yr9. He'd be a fish out of water. He may struggle to mate friends. The other kids will all know the score.
Yr7 is the time to move and just take the grammar place and tell him why

I would definitely move in Y7, especially if senior fees are not an option. We are in Kent and moved deliberately to avoid fees. My sons are all at a superselective and they have all said the prep school children find the first few days/weeks a bit of an adjustment, but settle quickly. If you are happy with the grammar, just be really positive about the change - even the most confident child would find a new school a bit of a challenge, but far easier to all be new together than join later in their school careers.

I think many people would be puzzled as to why anyone would spend £ thousands on a prep education and then actively choose a comp. I don’t know a single family that’s done that. Especially from a 13 plus prep. You see very defensive. I don’t think a single poster has said to stay at the prep. I don’t care what you do but you don’t have enough money for real choice. So take the best you can get.,

@PresentingPercy completely normal in Bucks, it varies slightly, but half-quarter of the year in our 13+ go onto Grammar and it's the same with the other 13+ schools in the area. In fact DS1 did it, along with 14/40 of his school year. DS2 stayed on.

You gain in terms of sporting provision, matches, specialist teachers for drama, french, DT labs, longer school days (often with inclusive breakfast and after school club) and longer school holidays - which we like as we enjoy travelling.

I think it's easier to move from prep now, since many children come from different schools at yr7, so it's not just him finding the change difficult. He will find friends soon enough.

Complete choice, we took a child centred approach.
They decided which school if they wanted to attend, or H.ed if they preffered.
I think it's awful them being made to attend a school / certain school if they don't want to.

@underneaththeash
Yes. I live in Bucks. Yes I know lots go to the grammars at 11. My query was why wait until 13 and then go to a comp? As DD went to Godstowe, no one went to a secondary modern at 13. They either went to the grammar at 11 or independent at 11 or 13. There might be a boys grammar in Bucks that has places at 13 (DrCG) but the girls schools do not. So you make your decision to take a grammar space at 11 or essentially go to a secondary modern. Everyone I know went to private secondary at 13 if they stayed at the prep until then. Godstowe would not be boasting about secondary modern destinations! Look at their destination list. Grammar or independent.

@PresentingPercy I misread your point.

OP - you'd be absolutely mad to turn down the grammar place if you can't afford indie at 13.

@underneaththeash
Thanks.

@PresentingPercy our local comp turns out plenty of doctors, lawyers etc and sends kids to oxbridge. It also turns out bricklayers and electricians. Middle class children can do brilliantly at comps so I wouldn’t think prep to comp is a waste of money at all if middle class Dc end up at the same RG uni’s.

Most schools, even independent, go from 11 these days. Prep schools to 13 are preparing for boarding schools and it will be hard to switch back to the state system at that age