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Education

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Original poster

Is this assault? - confrontation between headteacher and 6 year old

116 replies

ptangyangkipperbang · 31/10/2007 13:09

DS1 (age 9) came home from school yesterday talking about what had happened in assembly. He said a class 1 child was misbehaving so the head shouted at the child (loud enough to make one of the special needs children cry) and got him to come out to the front. He then said the child had to go to his office. The child, for whatever reason, refused to go. I know this must have been frustrating for the head and he wouldn't want his authority undermined, but DS1 said the head then marched the child the length of the hall, pushing him in the back to make him move. DS1 said the whole school (nearly 200 kids) sat in stunned silence.
I've had my doubts about the leadership of this head and have heard him shouting at pupils in a bullying manner but do you agree that by doing this he has overstepped the mark?
By the way DS1 is usually a reliable source!

OP posts:

LadyOfTheFlowers · 31/10/2007 14:21

cant believe i just posted that?!

irises · 31/10/2007 14:22

You are in the right, Lady of the Flowers.

LadyOfTheFlowers · 31/10/2007 14:23

....I thank you..

Original poster

ptangyangkipperbang · 31/10/2007 14:26

Perhaps as the OP I phrased the post wrongly. I don't mean that the police should be called in and the head charged with assault. All I wanted to do was question his techniques. I think what he did was wrong and just wondered if other MNetters agreed.

OP posts:

FluffyMummy123 · 31/10/2007 14:26

Message withdrawn

binkleandflip · 31/10/2007 14:27

Not assault at all.

Not very professional either but thats another arguement

wannaBe · 31/10/2007 14:30

the only account you have though has come from a 9 year old child who, after the event, probably discussed what happened with his mates and by the time he got home, what was a gentle persuasion into the office had been escallated to a full-blown asalt with children crying and head teachers screaching.

Children exagerate, probably because they are now somewhat more respectful of the head teacher than they might have been previously, so tales of what he might do to one if one misbehaves are probably rife in the playground now.

Blandmum · 31/10/2007 14:30

And does anyone wonder what would happen to the general diceppline in a school if a 6 year old is allowed to ignore the head and have no immediate punishment?

Because I know what would happen. The other kids wouldn't think, 'Gosh, look how proffesional our headmaster is'

They will think, 'Gosh, I don't have to do what anyone says, 'cos we are all bomb proof!'

and anyone who works with large numbers of kids will tell you the same.

Coping with 30 kids, or 100s of kids just isn't the same are looking after your own kids at home. there is a whole classroom dynamic that you have to take into account.

TerrorMater · 31/10/2007 14:31

Well, yes. He could have left him standing at the front if he quietly moved to one side and let the head get on with it. But I guess if was that acquiescent he would have done as he was told to begin with.

Look, I know you have concerns about the head already, and maybe it is a case of bad overreaction, but I think teachers will recognise only too clearly the impasse when you have a class being disrupted and the disruptive pupil refuses to leave. And being told that you should have just not let it get that bad just makes you wan to go . Yes, it would be better if it hadn't (although with some children it is difficult to avoid, even with best practice), but it has. And you have to deal with it.

I once had a boy shout repeatedly that I was a porn star. It took 10 minutes for someone to arrive to take him away, and he shouted it continuously all that time. Whatever the reasons for his behaviour, it certainly didn't make teaching fractions any easier I can tell you.

LadyOfTheFlowers · 31/10/2007 14:31

See to me it is not unreasonable behaviour from the bloke.
If the kid has the balls to play up in assembly, then why should he not be removed? He would have been disrupting all the other kids who were probably laughing at his stupidity.
At 6, the kid should understand right from wrong and if he does not think whatever he did was wrong then there are more serious issues to address IMO, more important than if the bloke overreacted.

BigGitDad · 31/10/2007 14:35

If you have a real concern about this then you need to speak to the headmaster direct or at least the Governors (Lenny Mclean?)It's not going to do much good coming on here and complaining. I don't mean to be rude or anything but you obviously feel strongly about this.

RGPargy · 31/10/2007 14:39

Teachers dont have the authority and respect that they had back when i was at school. Kids get away with bloody blue murder and then stand there all cocky in front of the teachers saying "you cant touch me, i'll sue!" etc etc. It's no wonder there are so many ASBO kids around these days because nobody is allowed to instill discipline children, which results in them having the upper hand and causing merry hell for everyone.

Original poster

ptangyangkipperbang · 31/10/2007 14:41

BigGitDad - I do feel strongly because I have seen in the past how he has acted with some children. I agree 100% that he should have the authority to discipline children but I am just questioning whether this was the best way to do it.
There are a number of posters who seem to agree with his actions. This is what I was trying to establish - was his behaviour appropriate. I didn't mean it to come over like I was using MN as a forum for complaint. More as a place to establish if I was in a little idealistic bubble not wanting this to happen at my child's school. From the majority of responses it appears that I am

OP posts:

RGPargy · 31/10/2007 14:42

If the HT's actions will make another naughty child think twice before being cocky, then he has done the right thing.

OrmIrian · 31/10/2007 14:46

Would you still say that if he had smacked the child round the head rgpargy? I'm sure that would instill plenty of discipline in the others. Does the end always justify the means?

TerrorMater · 31/10/2007 14:46

We didn't see it. That's the point. If he went absolutely ballistic and pushed him hard, then something is amiss and I expect his staff will be aware of that. If he put a firm hand on the boy's back and made it clear that he was going to move, that is very different.

binkleandflip · 31/10/2007 14:48

He did the right thing and I would support him in it tbh. If this child was playing up perhaps it is better that his behaviour was nipped in the bud at 6 as opposed to coddling him until he was 12 then trying to enforce discipline and authority.

morningpaper · 31/10/2007 14:54

There are lots of things that I don't like at my child's school - largely though that there are lots of horrible children running around being disruptive. Grrr.

I think it is fair to have SEEN in the past behaviour that you don't agree with - you need to mention it there and then really rather than building up a 'bad feeling' which is not really actionable.

If you are not happy with the school and don't trust the teachers to object if there is a real problem here, then you need to think about what action you want to take.

Blandmum · 31/10/2007 14:55

I have known teacher be told that if a child refuses to leave a classroom they have to take all the class out of the room and teach them somewhere else!

what message does that give the child that refused to me?

How helpful will this be for the class as a whole?

How will this affect behavior and learning long term?

Obviously actiual assaults are against the law, hitting a child around the head would fall into that catagory. But are we actually saying that you cannot hold onto a child arm and move them on?

Blandmum · 31/10/2007 14:56

sorry, refused to move not me!

Original poster

ptangyangkipperbang · 31/10/2007 14:56

TerrorMater - from DS1's description that is what he did, but I agree with other posters, I wasn't there and didn't witness it.
OrmIrian - thanks for being there I was starting to believe I was in a minority of one!

OP posts:

Blandmum · 31/10/2007 15:00

and tales really do grow in the telling with kids.

I once was taking the kids home from school, and gave a mates dss a lift. I saw a road accident, drove on so the kids couldn't see anything horrid, stoped the car and ran back to help out. All was OK, a motorcyclist had fallen of her bike, but was OK.

The ds told his mum I had knocked the woman off the bike!

A very nice kid, he is playing in my house as I type this But tales grow in the telling

TerrorMater · 31/10/2007 15:00

MB - that happened to me (see below). Only I had nowhere to go, so stayed in the corridor for 10 minutes.

Barmy.

BelaWotzLugosi · 31/10/2007 15:01

It does change the dynamics of a class if one child creates a bad environment on purpose.

dd2 has a child in her class (yr 4) that wants to be expelled, hates being at school (any school) and is abusive to the teachers (all of them) in class. dd is fed up with the distraction and swearing.

dd was not happy about going back this week.

TerrorMater · 31/10/2007 15:01

There wasa thread yesterday where someone's child sobbed that the teacher had said horrible things to them. She told him to sit down.

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