We now need to teach table manners too

[Strictly1]

From the DfE today:

Once the pandemic is over, I would encourage you to consider introducing measures such as ‘family dining’ which can help instil good eating habits, if facilities allow.
We don't have the time to do everything.

I agree
This is a parents job

Definitely a family job. Plus 'good' table manners is so subjective. In some families /cultures, eating with hands is a complete no-no, other it's the norm. Definitely should come from home.

The fuck?

I do get stressed unreasonably over people with revolting and shitty table manners. But the reality is that many families don't have a separate dining room and table etc. And due to people's work shifts not everyone sits down to eat at the same time anyway.

I get over my issue with this and my misophonia by avoiding being round others when they're eating.

I’m happy for my kids to eat like savages do you’re okay 👌

We were expected to have good table manners at our rural primary school in the 80s. The gym / school hall became the dining hall every lunchtime and we all sat with a teacher on each table. I don't see what is so controversial about sitting at a table and eating together, with the adult ensuring everyone behaves nicely. For kids who don't get this opportunity at home it is all the more important.

I wouldn't want this. I want my teenagers to be able to chat to their friends at lunchtime. Not have a teacher supervising the conversation.

Is the DfE also able to fund and staff this initiative?

Oh no. They make ever more demands of schools but won't provide any extra funding.

It's one of those things that children need to learn and know when to use as appropriate. It might not be possible for all families to have a sit down meal together every night but once a week should be enough to teach what you do on those occasions?

Apart from instilling good manners, it's a good time to connect and be mindful about eating. I'm sure I've read things about people constantly eating on the run being more likely to become or be overweight.

It's not new, family dining was done for this reason at the junior school I worked at 5 years ago. It wasn't teachers supervising it and that's not what the DfE are suggesting (I read the whole letter yesterday)

It just means children should sit round a table to eat "where facilities allow". How can you object to that?

I'm confused now after reading some of the other replies, and re-reading the OP. Who is the 'we' that doesn't have time? The parents or schools? Are the schools supposed to be encouraging family eating at home? That's how I read it!

The minister for food (I think?) wrote to schools yesterday, I suspect in response to criticism that schools haven't been providing a proper meal during the pandemic and many children are only getting a packed lunch in classroom (although she did say well done for what schools are doing).

It's simply encouragement to provide a family dining experience at school lunch, once things return to normal - to have children sitting round a table to eat. It would be supervised by lunchtime staff.

If the letter says, "when the pandemic is over", then thanks to Matt Hancock and the government's appalling handling of affairs, that won't be for a very long time (at least in England).

I don't see what is so controversial about sitting at a table and eating together, with the adult ensuring everyone behaves nicely.

At many schools there are hundreds of children eating in the hall and just a handful of adults, who are generally racing around dealing with children who’ve spilt something, wet themselves, not got the dinner they wanted or can’t use a knife. It’s purely crowd control and making sure nobody is out of their seat who shouldn’t be.

If the government want table manners taught at school (I haven’t seen this letter so am not sure what’s actually being proposed), it won’t be happening under the current situation in school unless they throw funding at it, which going on recent experience of this government and schools, looks unlikely.

The letter doesn't say anything about table manners. It's mostly about food standards and the importance of a hot meal and drinking water. Then it ends as OP has quoted, with "can help instil good eating habits". Eating habits, not table manners. It even acknowledges that some schools don't have the facilities to do it.

There are lots of things for schools to be up in arms over atm. This isn't one.

Here you go.

DEAR HEADTEACHER,

As the Minister responsible for school food I wanted to write to you all to thank you and your catering teams for all for the efforts you’ve undertaken to get your kitchens up and running again. The
government encourages all schools to promote healthy eating and provide
healthy, tasty and nutritious food and drink and to support children to develop healthy eating habits.

These are challenging times for schools and I am acutely aware that the
current COVID-19 situation has had a real logistical impact on food provision in schools. I welcome the support that schools are providing via food parcels to those eligible children that are self-isolating.

However, given what we know about the links between living with obesity in childhood and adulthood it has never been more important to ensure that children are eating healthy and nutritious meals at school and, in doing so, are building an understanding of the importance of healthy
choices that supports their development now and in the future.

SCHOOL FOOD STANDARDS

We already have robust School Food Standards set in legislation which
require school caterers to serve healthy and nutritious food and drinks which make sure children get the energy and nutrition they need across the school day. The Standards restrict foods high in fat, salt and sugar, including drinks and confectionary. A summary of the Standards
and a practical guide are available from gov.uk.

I and the Minister for Public Health, Prevention and Primary Care would
encourage schools to be vigilant in ensuring the current School Food
Standards are met and that all standards are applied at the relevant time of day. All state-funded schools (including all academies) must follow the Standards. These Standards must also apply across the whole school day, including, for example, at breakfast clubs, tuck shops,
mid-morning break, vending and after school clubs.

Due to the priority of responding to the COVID-19 outbreak and the pressures on schools this presents, the government will not be taking further action during the course of the pandemic on updating the School Food Standards, but we would expect that schools will be ensuring
adherence to those currently in operation.

HOT MEALS

The vast majority of children are in school and we understand schools may be finding it hard at this time to provide children with their usual hot meal at lunchtime especially given the need to minimise contact between bubbles. Furthermore, higher numbers of parents may also be
sending their children in with a packed lunch. Schools have flexibility within the School Food Standards around which products/foods they serve across the school week. There is no legal requirement that meals should be hot, however we do encourage this and ask all schools to routinely be offering a varied hot meal option to pupils. It is much harder to comply with the School Food Standards through the provision of cold food alone.
I would urge you all to work closely with your caterers to make every effort to ensure children are receiving a healthy and nutritious hot meal at school. Once the pandemic is over, I would encourage you to
consider introducing measures such as ‘family dining’ which can help
instil good eating habits, if facilities allow.

I’d like to draw your attention to a couple of school food campaigns
that you may wish to engage with your catering team on:

· October saw the launch of Hot’ober, led by LACA, (the
organisation representing school food providers) which aims to encourage
schools and pupils to get back to eating a hot and nutritious school
lunch. There are a range of resources to support this here:

thegreatschoollunch.co.uk/resources/hotober-resources/ [5]

· The annual National School Meals week is taking place from
9th-13th November. The aim of this campaign is to highlight the
importance and benefits of school meals and to champion and celebrate
school caterers. It includes a Taste for Yourself campaign to encourage
pupils and parents back to school meals. Further information on NSMW can
be found on LACA’s website:

thegreatschoollunch.co.uk/#:~:text=National%20School%20Meals%20Week%202020,has%20added%20importance%20this%20year
[6].

Thank you again for your commitment in supporting children to return to
school safely and in working with your kitchen and catering staff to
provide healthy, nutritious meals and ensure School Food Standards are
upheld throughout the whole school day.

DRINKING WATER

I’d also like to remind you that schools are legally obliged to provide access at all times to free drinking water on the school
premises. Schools should consider the most appropriate way to do this
if, for public health reasons, pupils do not have access to water fountains. I would also encourage the use of refillable bottles,
alongside other steps to reduce single-use plastics.

VICKY FORD MP

Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for
Children and Families

JO CHURCHILL MP

Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for
Prevention, Public Health and Primary Care

Family dining is referring specifically to a practise a lot of free schools are doing. Students sit with one teacher per table, one serves the food and they get a specific topic of conversation to discuss. I visited a school and did it as a guest. It was a pleasant enough experience as a visitor but to put it into practice in a larger comp would mean either paying every staff member to do a lunch duty (too expensive) or asking them to give up some or all of their lunch break (immoral and potentially illegal)

@Misssugarplum12764

Family dining is referring specifically to a practise a lot of free schools are doing. Students sit with one teacher per table, one serves the food and they get a specific topic of conversation to discuss. I visited a school and did it as a guest. It was a pleasant enough experience as a visitor but to put it into practice in a larger comp would mean either paying every staff member to do a lunch duty (too expensive) or asking them to give up some or all of their lunch break (immoral and potentially illegal)

* practice

@Misssugarplum12764

Family dining is referring specifically to a practise a lot of free schools are doing. Students sit with one teacher per table, one serves the food and they get a specific topic of conversation to discuss. I visited a school and did it as a guest. It was a pleasant enough experience as a visitor but to put it into practice in a larger comp would mean either paying every staff member to do a lunch duty (too expensive) or asking them to give up some or all of their lunch break (immoral and potentially illegal)

As a teacher, I’d be happy to do family dining but would need some other responsibility to go to give me the time to do it. I already do jobs throughout the lunch break such as marking books, phoning parents, dealing with behaviour issues, paperwork, meetings, discussing lessons with colleagues and resourcing lessons for the afternoon leaving about 10 mins to eat myself.

Family dining would mean I get to sit down and eat properly with the children instead of cramming in a quick sandwich but when would I get all those other jobs done which are usually squeezed into the lunch break? Probably it would be after school when we already have staff meetings until 5pm 3 nights a week so then it would be in the evenings at home reducing the time I can spend with my own family eating at the table.

As a teacher, I’d be happy to do family dining but would need some other responsibility to go to give me the time to do it. I already do jobs throughout the lunch break such as marking books, phoning parents, dealing with behaviour issues, paperwork, meetings, discussing lessons with colleagues and resourcing lessons for the afternoon leaving about 10 mins to eat myself.Family dining would mean I get to sit down and eat properly with the children instead of cramming in a quick sandwich but when would I get all those other jobs done which are usually squeezed into the lunch break? Probably it would be after school when we already have staff meetings until 5pm 3 nights a week so then it would be in the evenings at home reducing the time I can spend with my own family eating at the table.

Exactly this

When I started teaching (in a pretty deprived area) in the mid 1980s we used to do this with Reception children for the whole of the Autumn Term, and then, on an ad hoc basis throughout the year and in 'Middles' and 'Tops' (as Yr1 & 2 were called).
It was incredibly benificial in terms of language development and listening skills as well as encouraging children to eat all sorts of foods they might not otherwise have done so. Teaching them how to use cutlery and pour water our from a jug was also a bonus.

However it was a time when teachers were actually trusted as professionals. Our planning for the week was done onto an A3 piece of paper - not 5 x A4 sheets per lesson (ie 5 a day). The dc had a 75min break for lunch. We would sit with them to eat and converse, and then hear some readers, then get things out for the afternoon session, and still have 10 - 15 mins to have a cup of tea in the staffroom before they came in.

BIG difference from what teachers have to waste so much time on today.

To be fair it doesn't specify table manners, however, that is how I interpreted it. Children are sat at a table eating now, it's just for some it's a packed lunch, not hot meal. The difficulty with hot meals at the moment is how close staff need to get to multiple children to cut up food as they can't use a knife and fork. It is as another poster stated, the staff are busy going from one need to another, they don't have time to replicate family time. A lot more staff would be needed and this costs money schools don't have.
I feel it is a sad world we seem to be stumbling into where the school is having to teach all aspects of life. School does have an important role of course, but it should be to remind and support, not to teach things like manners, how to sit at a table etc.
Yes, many families don't sit round a table but shouldn't we be looking at why rather than giving it to schools to mop up? This is not a dig at parents, I think as a society we should be supporting them not saying it's okay we will get school to do it.

I can remember being told by the dinner ladies to get my elbow of the table, kids told to use knife and fork not their hands, closing their mouths to chew etc. Surely that kind of thing is adequate and was quite easily achieved by our dinner ladies, it didn't necessitate lots of staff replicating a family and doing lessons on correct layout of silver service cutlery?

@SleepingStandingUp

I can remember being told by the dinner ladies to get my elbow of the table, kids told to use knife and fork not their hands, closing their mouths to chew etc. Surely that kind of thing is adequate and was quite easily achieved by our dinner ladies, it didn't necessitate lots of staff replicating a family and doing lessons on correct layout of silver service cutlery?

All of those things require an adult being able to just be there-noticing those things. We have 4 of 5 mid day assistants for the whole school. They are raving around putting out the cutlery, pouring the drinks, working out who has allergies/who is vegetarian, serving meals, mopping spilt drinks, monitoring who’s gone to the toilet, scraping the plates, bringing out desserts, topping up drinks, wiping tables and then as soon as x number have finished, rushing outside to supervise them on the playground.

I am pretty sure they don’t have time to notice whose elbows are on the table or who has their mouth open.

If this is a priority, then the government need to provide funding to double the number of adults on duty at lunchtime.

For what it’s worth I would happily sit and each lunch everyday and do this with my class if you halved the amount of pointless admin I have to do in my classroom between 12-12.45 in exchange. The government don’t want to do that though either.

@Redlocks28 fair enough, if they want schools to do what they did in the 80s, they need to have similar staffing levels to the 80s