Virus will further highlight the education gap between middle class, private schools & others....

[321mamma]

Just putting my thoughts down z hmmhere.. Very concerned as like the rest of the UK my dc have been off since march & the work sent from school was acceptable not very much but it was corrected & teachers always replied to queries. Local private school had full day zoom classes for all children.
Roll onto September & there is a no homework policy in place in the school to help children resettle after the lockdown & a softly softly approach with revision of what was missed in the previous term. However friends in the private sector have said their kids recieved homework on day 1 & are straight on ahead with new concepts & topics...
Surely in the years ahead the private school kids are going to be hugely advantaged especially if govt need to do these "circuit breaks"?
I've been setting my own kids a little bit every day after school in Maths & English... Also listening to all 3 reading aloud daily but dds friend y4 in private 3 doors up from us is getting 2 hours homework daily I'm concerned

Oh this goes without saying! Your children may have been disadvantaged compared to those in private schools but they are hugely advantages compared to children who have had no one to support them with their home learning. Some children didn’t do anything for 6 months! Some children will have been even further disadvantaged by poverty, domestic violence and stress. Some children will never be able to bounce back from this as they don’t have family to support them. It’s all a big mess!

I’m more concerned about the 8/9 year old in Year 4 getting two hours homework a night! Completely OTT!

But to your other point state schools will vary widely with what they’re doing, so this is a blanket generalisation.

Agree with the previous poster, even in normal times pupils were at different ends of the spectrum of advantages and disadvantages.
We're at private, and had the experience your talking about, yr2 dd had a Full online timetable including sports, cooking and assembly's. My friends children (non private) were set 2 hrs work to complete over the course of a week. The difference was staggering and really unfair, the parents set their own work to keep on top of things, and to be fair once restrictions were lifted were having incredible day out at the beaches etc, whilst we were online working all day.
Yr12 dd has same as younger dd where as her friends who are at college got absolutely nothing. And even now they are doing 1 or 2 days a week in college whilst she is back full time. It's really a shambles.

Instead of looking what private schools are doing you should be focusing on what state schools did not/are not doing. You pay for education through your taxes, everybody seems to be scared to death to complain to their schools where things weren't good enough. Private school parents pay a huge premium to send their kids to private school, of course they are buying an advantage in the same way mc parents move to a more desirable area/employ tutors etc. I often fancy that it is actually the mc class parents that are moaning about the 'advantage' private school children get instead of doing what they should be which is trying to improve their own state provision.

I do agree OP. My children are in a prep and had excellent live, online home learning and all year groups got some time back in school before the summer holidays. They did assessments on their return and they don't seem to have had suffered any educational disadvantage. They're getting on with the syllabus for their year group. I know the local state primary (which is rated outstanding) just sent worksheets home which were never marked (not a critisim of them necessarily as they didn't have the same resources). I know our prep has had an influx of kids transferring from the state sector and now has a long waiting list when it didn't previously.

Even aside from state and private kids who live in homes with plenty of books and parents who are able to help with school work will be at an even greater advantage than normal.

I agree with PP though. My eldest is in year 4 and I'd be horrified if he was set 2 hours of homework a night - I'd be moving to a more relaxed school ASAP. I'd rather my kids got a childhood - how unhealthy to not have any time to play and relax in the evening. My kids (Y4 and Y2) read every night and get half an hour (Y2) or at most an hour (Y4) of homework to do at the weekend.

My eldests who are in state had a full zoom timetable through lockdown. All lessons are zoomed live now too for children who are SI. They are back at school and working as hard as ever including full detentions I discovered yesterday. All children had to attend live lessons in lockdown and all work was marked. I received phone calls and emails if they didn’t attend or didn’t submit their work.

Some state schools delivered easily as well as private schools.

Youngest is at a private school and had a combination of live and non live work as well as small group sessions and online LAMDA classes. But it really wasn’t all day every day, it was a couple of hours. 3 at the most per day which is great but I’m yet to hear of a school who did straight 9-3 live. Even a lot of the private secondaries pulled back to a mix of live and not love because it’s just too hard for the children to be on form all day long

@321mamma @purpleboy one of my lovely friends slightly panicked and pulled her children out of local state primary and secondary after lockdown and according to her they are absolutely keeping up with the learning in their new private schools - one at a prep one at a different senior. The sets the son is in at senior are same as the ones he was in at state comp and he is not behind at all despite not having full zoom lessons over lockdown and 9 years of state education. He has made the move very easily, is happy, more homework less time for extra curricular and she seems pleased with how easily he has settled. The one at Prep has also coped very well with move and not struggling at all despite primary school doing very uninspired learning. Suspect the zoom learning was a feel good and justified fees but not a great educational tool (latest peer reviewed research backs this up)

@flourandeggs

I haven't seen any peer reviewed research that suggested that zoom learning wasn't effective. In fact the opposite - research suggests in some cases it's more effective than face to face learning. (Only in terms of academics though - I imagine socially there are clear disadvantages).

Obviously it depends very much on how it's done. I know my kids got through the full term's syllabus via google meet including having their work marked and being able to ask the teacher for help - they received the same education they would have done at school. Their assessments show they've improved during lockdown. I find it very difficult to believe that they're not at an advantage compared to other children who got printed worksheets which weren't marked. They also have got way more opportunity for extra curriculars.

It is true though that you can't guarantee a private school will be better than a state school. There tends to be less disruption (even that isn't guaranteed) and some have more qualified staff - (although there's less oversight - some privates seem to only employ staff that couldn't get a job elsewhere). Some are also essentially hot houses. They get good results at the expense of the children's free time, social lives and generally being a kid.

Research showed that online alone is not effective and particularly not with children - balance of synchronised and asynchronous worked best. Good schools (both sectors) balanced it out. Schools where parents were moaning about fees went heavier on the zooming (my friend is a deputy at one of those schools you should have read the emails she got from parents who had time to watch the lessons!) It was three months of school (minus holidays) at a time when there is a lot of lovely end of school stuff going on usually anyway and not so much teaching I don’t think it is a disaster for children in non exam years who are well supported at home anyway. For those who aren’t the stakes are always going to be more serious Covid or not but what this experience has done is shine a light on inequality which is a good thing. My neighbours’ kids (private) had a lot of zoom during which they played fortnite on their laps and put the occasional thumbs up and the school gave up in the end and had digital detoxes.

Lots of children have no access to the internet at home.
Lots of children have no access to a device on which to access the internet at home.
Lots of children have no place to work or study at home.
Lots of children have no books at home.
Lots of children do not get properly fed at home.

The long term impacts of the lockdown will increase inequality for decades.

Online learning was actually shown to be as effective as face to face:
here

Most privates didn't do lecture style learning full time but for example what my DC's prep did was have the lesson structure as it would be in class. The topic was introduced with some either full class or small group discussion. The children would be set work to do independendtly but the teacher would remain online to answer questions and check in with the kids to check they're on the right track. They'd then go through it either individually or together as a class or just mark it at a later date.

Actually I know a lot of state secondaries which did the same so it's not just privately educated kids who got high quality home learning. The issue though is that it requires you to have a dedicated computer at home (private schools could provide this not all state schools can), a quiet space to work, a decent internet connection. Any child who doesn't have that will be at a disadvantage.

@flourandeggs that's really good for your friends children, I'm not sure of the point of your post though? Are you saying because your friends children transitioned ok that there is no advantage/disadvantage? Because that would seem like a very strange statement. As I and others have pointed out children are at a disadvantage/advantage throughout school before Covid, every child is different and will react differently, but I would say overall those that had access to full learning vs those that were given 1/2 sheets a week to complete would be faring better.

My dd thrived with online learning. She's moved up two sets in science.

I think its propaganda to say its not effective (she was Teams, not Zoom, but same concept).

As a pp said, why bother getting hung up on what private schools were doing? Try and change your state school.

@HandfulofDust that is research into university the research in to schools said a balance of asynchronous and synchronised was most effective. I will try and find it I think it was published in TES or schools week. Sounds like your school did that beautifully as did many others across sector. The real outrage is as @purpleboy said with children who didn’t have access to devices, the children who are at risk in normal times. My point is that well supported middle class kids won’t be disadvantaged by missing 3 months of summer term zoom learning as their parents will have been making sure they did their more asynchronous learning at home....@Janevaljane my children were at school as husband was a busy rather exhausted key worker throughout lockdown so I really am not focused on what private schools were doing compared to our state school, my statements were about good schools cross sector. I was a rather awful home schooler when they were around despite being in education so very pleased they got some time in school!

C @Janevaljane clearly your daughter flourished on that medium but it only proves the unanimous effectiveness of online visual learning if her whole set moved up two sets? Otherwise clearly some didn’t move along at the same speed. That is a bit pedantic of me but some children (aspegers, high anxiety and particularly bad for those with processing issues) really struggled with videoed learning. My eldest two children flourished on teams (mostly audio classes and annotated PowerPoints as well as self led study) but some of their peers didn’t at all (cross sector). Our state secondary was brilliant from the off but I was still very glad to get them in school as key worker children as they missed the social side of school the days we had them at home. My heart aches for those who had no parents at home, no technology and no school auppprt but I am afraid it doesn’t ache for middle class state school parents like myself and the op we were able to supplement learning, buy books and invest time.

We have the same concerns OP. Made worst by us getting a tutor for DS. He had an assessment with the tutor who said he’d learnt 25% of the maths curriculum for the last academic year. The school rated his maths as mastery in his end of year assessment. We just don’t have the time to homeschool and do our jobs well enough to ensure they’re secure. Our school also tried to tell us it’s ok that there are no sets, as in classes by ability, in year 7.

@flourandeggs

I don't think any schools did full time teams/zoom other than having a teacher there to answer questions all did independent work too.

A lot of children with ASD/ADHD or other social issues prefer online learning although other struggled. The issues isn't really whether online learning is better than face to face education. It is for some but most children would prefer to be in school.

I think the point was that online learning was clearly very effective for lots of children and obviously much more effective than no learning. For it to happen though it relies on the school having the resources to impliment it well and the parents having the circumstances to allow children to access it. The children who didn't have that will have missed out. Even children who did have quality home learning will have missed out if they're in a class with others who didn't as those other children will need to be caught up. Lots of local schools are not starting on the current syllabus work for their year group but are going over previous work. So some children in these classes who have been making progress over lock down are having to wait to move on. These are all disadvantages that are not going to be present to the same degree in schools with many middle class/educated families.

My children were educated in fee-paying schools for primary education, but we still did extra at home and listened to them read daily- all parents need to do that.

Two hours homework for a Y4 child on top of a day from 8:30-4pm plus extra-curricular is unnecessary and just ridiculous to be quite frank. I'd be worried about the quality of the school if they think the pupils need two hours consolidation each day!

@HandfulofDust I suspect if we were discussing this over a vino rather than online we would find we were broadly coming from the same place. Online learning can be effective for some children, it was absolutely necessary for privates to roll out quickly to ensure there wasn’t mass exodus but many state schools coped well and some private’s did dreadfully. There will be a gap but that is what people paid £4000 fees for, but many middle class state school parents paid for tutors and other resources too. Am I worried about my children’s long term prospects after 3 months away from full time school. No. Will the contextual offers that universities give to children who go to state school at gcse level even the gap lost over 3 months - hopefully. Who are the real losers? The kids who don’t have university in their futures, the ones who saw abuse during lockdown, the ones who saw their parents’ drug habits get worse. The ones whose parents were working long shifts and were not at home to supervise schooling in between their own meetings. Not the ones who didn’t do drama on zoom. Op has given her children a head start even by being on here and thinking about education and worrying out loud many kids don’t have parents who do that - usually through no fault of their own.

@flourandeggs

I agree that we're broadly agree (if that makes sense). I didn't mean to imply that the gap would be purely between state and private parents. A child from an educated household with access to lots of books and is encouraged to read, who is exposed to a varied vocabulary, might have conversations about lots of different topics at home etc and has parents who can support them with whatever work they're doing is probably not going to be massively disadvantaged and will catch up quickly. These parents tend to have their children in good state schools or can move them to private or better performing state if they really have to. If not they can usually make up for what's lacking in school to a certain extent with extra help at home.

The issue is the children who are growing up in homes without access to books, without educational support, without access to the internet and laptops to use to practise maths and access home learning etc. These children already suffer a massive 'summer slump' over 6 weeks which takes months sometimes to reverse. Having had almost 6 months off for them will have a big impact. It will also have a big impact on other children in their class as their teachers will need to go over missed and forgotten work before progressing.

I have one in state and one in private. They both did well academically under lockdown, but the huge difference was the amount of parental involvement needed. The state primary provided lots of good resources but it really needed a parent in the 'classroom' all day to coordinate everything and ensure the work was completed. The private secondary set a mixture of live and offline work, but because they maintained the daily structure (ie live registration at the beginning of each lesson), it required practically zero input from us. Which is just as well as we were both also trying to work full time. We could just about manage to home educate one child while working ourselves, but not two.

As others have said, I think the equality gap is much, much broader than state vs private. It's about the big differences between schools of whatever sector, but above all about the difference in the amount and quality of home support.

Motivated able parents were able to support their children during lockdown.

Many other families did not have the emotional, intellectual, financial and physical resources to do so.

Its why every civilised society provides universally available education.

Lockdown will take many many years to recover from.

I think it’s important to bear in mind that the biggest advantage is a supportive loving family. Also, for those of you talking about primary - private schools set lots of work, cover lots of content because that’s what parents want, they think they’re getting value for money. I’m not sure the kids end up ‘further ahead’ or advantaged by age 16/18 though. A lot of it is just ‘busy work’.

Dd went to a rough state school in a poor area (2/3 on free school meals) and then won a bursary to a very selective independent school. Most of her peers came from prep schools where they’d learned a language, done proper science etc etc whereas she’d pretty much done just Maths and English. They were used to 1-2 hours homework a night, she’d never done any. It made no difference to how she got on in that school. In fact one of the teachers told me that the state entrants usually were ahead by year 9. They all got 8/9s at GCSE.

I also know home educated students who don’t do any formal work, just play until age 11/12/13 and then still manage to pass GCSEs with high grades. So I don’t buy into this idea of linear progress from age 4-18 being related to the amount of school work completed or the possibility of getting ahead or behind irreparably.

I agree that disadvantaged (due to home life) year 10/11 children may struggle to catch-up in time because of missing GCSE content. I think most Mumsnet kids will be fine though.
In all areas of education there’s this belief that more is better- you see it with tutoring for 11 plus etc. Most of the time, doing lots more work doesn’t result in faster progress.

I had the same experience as therealdonaldduck. My child in private was able to do everything herself. The work set for my child in state school required a lot of parental input. This input didn't exist because I work for the NHS. So my child in private secondary year 7 did lots. My child in state primary year 4 didn't. Perhaps it was my mistake not to use the keyworker place, I was trying to reduce exposure to the teachers. I have now moved my primary school child to a prep because I know that in the event of another lockdown, this prep is ready to continue the curriculum online with minimal parental input needed so my child won't be disadvantaged because of my job.