Private just for primary

[Sunshineandsparkle]

With all of the changes that COVID has brought about, Dh and I are considering our options for schools.

We have 2 dc (aged 1 and 3) and I’m currently pregnant with dc3. Dh works full time and I work part time for now but will go back full time if necessary in the future.

We have a decent income I would say and live a comfortable life. As we will have 3 dc (and not the one/two that seems more common in families choosing to privately educate), is it unreasonable to consider going private for primary and then reverting to state for secondary.

We can afford the fees for 3 at primary level (currently 9k per year) and I know that these will go up over the years. We would definitely notice the money going out but could still afford a nice house and holidays. Currently in our area the senior school fees are 20k per year so x3 is 60k plus extras. There is no hope in hell of us affording that.

State options in our area at secondary are grammar and secondary schools with above average results. The primary schools also have a good reputation.

Is it silly to think that sending them for the part we can afford is better than not at all? They would have a good foundation and experiences which they will take to whatever secondary school they go to.

Any experience or advice is welcome. We don’t have to make a decision just yet so we’re in the discussion stages at the minute.

OP you don’t sound naive, you actually sound very clued up and your financial plan sounds very feasible and seems to have a “get out” clause on case of financial issues (ie your investment property) - notice period is normally a term but ultimately if times were to turn for the worst and it becomes a struggle, you haven’t signed over for life.

Once upon a time (or last year!) I would have said no way, keep the money for secondary school or just to save for the future or have a nicer lifestyle. Now I’ve been working in a private primary for a year, my eyes have been opened a bit and I can weigh this up in a different way. Ironically on my salary, even with the staff discount it’s still not an option for me!

This is also an area with the 11 plus and grammar schools and super selective grammar schools. Also many very good comprehensives and some not so good (or at least by reputation and to be blunt, the perceived view about where the students who attend come from). State primaries are also largely excellent. Spaces are competitive and some have extremely small catchment areas. Some fill up with parents who want to move them immediately.

Class size at my school is kept at 16 - 18. The reception children are heard reading 3 times a week (sometimes twice and the teachers panic). Their working groups are smaller, there is a TA in every classroom (all day - so essentially a 1:8 ratio) in pre prep and plenty of TAs on the move on the prep. Two Sencos - full time so plenty of time for support groups. They get to go swimming every week as the school has a pool.
Everyone gets to play matches - I remember my four form entry state school and the netball club of 40 children where only 7 and a reserve would be chosen. I know this could be argued as not realistic, but the children are still teamed up ability wise and it’s interesting to see the teams gradually mix (so someone on team B improves due to actually having a chance to play and ends up on team A). Lots of sport once you get into Year 3 up.
Now academically there is a very strong push which people will feel different ways about. The small classes certainly enable a stronger push for those who are ready and need it, likewise more time for those who need support. We are non selective, first come first first serve, no assessment or anything prior to coming and my class certainly has both ends of the spectrum.
So many clubs! Everything you could possibly think of. A science lab. A theatre (everyone can actually see the performance) A separate sports hall. Computer suites and around 100 iPads that teachers can book for their class. It’s insane. I’ve never seen anything like it.
It’s what state primaries should also have. It’s not fair. All the teachers who have worked in state school say they will never return. Their workload is just as high here as is the pressure, but at least they have resources at their disposal and specialist teachers for music, PE, drama, and later science, which removes a huge chunk of planning from their load.

That’s the plus side.

The other side is the bubble. The children I work with largely have no idea just how lucky they are. We have year 7 and 8 and loose about 50% to state school at year 6. We have a great pastoral program and I think they are prepared well, but ultimately I think for some it will be a bit of a crash to Earth. I accompanied some of the children to an event at the neighbouring state school (a production company of some sort) and one of them asked as we sat down in the hall why we weren’t watching the show on their theatre. I don’t believe all the children are in a bubble of privilege at all and I can certainly see many families doing everything they can to send their child there and those with money to burn right alongside them. The children themselves don’t really notice. I think as long as children are realistically prepared (and warned) for changes, switching from private to state will be absolutely fine.

And private schools vary. Considerably. Go with your gut when looking around. We loose children because their parents think we aren’t pushing enough - we are not a hot house. Some are.

So it’s up to you OP, I think there’s a good balance of reasons for and against your plan. You know your children. Look around all the schools, do your research and go from there. You can always change your mind!

Hi. Thank you again for more replies and more points to think about and consider with regards to the pros and cons of different stages of education.

One thing that I think makes things difficult is that we will have 3 dc very close in age so the fees won’t be that staggered. When the youngest starts school we’ll have one in reception, year 1 and year 3. When the youngest starts secondary we’ll have year 7, year 8 and year 10. In both instances, we’ll have 4 years of fees x3. I can’t rely on one getting a scholarship or any type of discount as that isn’t guaranteed so if it did happen, we’d need to treat it as an added bonus at the time. Dc3 is our surprise lockdown baby (😂) so this pregnancy really has thrown a spanner in the works as the financial aspect of giving 3 the best start we can is very daunting. We need to ensure we put ourselves in a position of being able to give all of them the same opportunities.

As other pp’s have said, I understand that parental input is key, especially in primary. A concern of mine is how I will split myself between the 3 of them, especially when I start having to ferry them all between activities. I’ll also have to juggle this with work.

A pp mentioned the cost of senior school in our area. We’re in commuting distance to London. Our local school is 20k per year and the other two in driving distance are currently 21k and 24k. It isn’t common for dc to switch to state in sixth form at all. Some switch to the grammar school but none switch to any of the local schools.

A few pp’s mentioned the potential difficultly in transition to a state school. Is this just down to the variety of children? I only ask as our local state schools either have a 1 or 2 class intake of 30 pupils whilst the private has 2 classes of 18/20. Size wise there isn’t a massive difference between schools in the state and private sector. The senior schools are also quite large (both state and private) with a similar number of forms just a difference in class size (going from 20 to 30 again).

I know some pp’s are saying about saving the primary years and paying for secondary. If we did this, we would need to budget for 7 years and not just the 5. When we’re doing our calculations, we tend to do it as a whole as opposed to per year as ultimately, this is the amount we’ll need to make sure we have available. We’ve used an online calculator to take into account an annual 5% fee increase and inflation. Working on current fees of £9k per year for primary and 20k per year for secondary, this would be the total cost per child taking into account 5% of annual increases. We also want to budget £90k per child for university fees to cover tuition, accommodation and living expenses. It’s impossible to know what the costs will be in 15 years time, but it’s a good starting point.

• Primary (reception-y6): £73k per child (£219k in total)
• Secondary (y7-y13): £163k per child (£489k in total 😳)
• University (3 years): 90k per child (£270k in total)

We have some savings and both pay into a private pension but at some point, we need to put extra aside. I just don’t see how it would be possible if we pay private fees for primary and secondary and then fund uni and a house deposit too. The numbers are just so high! I don’t know how people do it. We also have a mortgage and like to go for days out and nice holidays.

Currently we are looking at state primary, private secondary and student loan for university. I don’t think you can realistically expect to pay for university in cash! Even if you could, the money would be better invested elsewhere eg buying a house.

To be honest unless you are rolling in money it's pointless to pay full uni costs. The vast majority of kids, even those from private schools, have their fees paid from the loan, as well as basic maintenance. (Caveat - assuming the system of fixed repayment regardless of salary stays.)

It seems counterintuitive to pay for primary and uni and not secondary. Secondary's when they need it the most!

I probably wouldn’t do it
The transition from small Private Primary to large Secondary can be a very big leap and if you have a good Primary available then there’s probably no need anyway
My dc did State Primary and Private Secondary which gave us time to save extra money for fees and their transition was pretty easy - they were much more streetwise and well rounded than their peers who had been at the Private school since age 3 or 4, plus they have a wider selection of friends as they keep in touch with some from Primary too

Uni costs - with your income you do need to contribute to student living costs - 4.5k a year.

Some courses are 4 years. If you get a medic it’s 7 years.

Loans are normal for course fees but the interest is real and some parents help out.

In your position I’d do secondary fees and ditch the plans re university. I think you’d be throwing away the 90k per child when the loans are an option.

I wouldn’t do private primary if I couldn’t continue it or have a very good chance of a grammar (which seems to be a common route in some areas). The difference in demographics, facilities etc is likely to be so great.

It does look terrifying written down though! For us, we always budgeted for two children and secondary school fees. A surprise third would make that much harder and I don’t know if we would go down the private route

We have done small private prep of one class of 20 to an outstanding state secondary of 150 in a year. No issues whatsoever. They’ve gone straight into top sets, lovely friends, good work ethos and for the eldest 2 a straight run of 8’s and 9’s at GCSE. No complaints whatsoever, in fact I’m relieved that we took the gamble and saved ourselves a proper fortune.

The real reason why people pay for private education, deny it though they will, is cultural and social capital, not necessarily academic achievement. You won't reap the benefits of that with an indie primary.

What about a small little village primary?

I thought the message about paying for uni fees was more nuanced if they are going to be doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers and earning massive money then it is worth paying their fees as otherwise they end up paying loads more, everyone else not so.

I think if you live in a grammar area and you are happy with them and intend to go all in to get in then you go private then grammar - especially if they are both single sex.

If you think you are going private at secondary then you go state primary unless you are aiming for Eton or Kings or somehwere that doesnt take that many from state schools otherwise you will be clueless how to get in - if you want any of those type of schools as opposed to a local indie then you really need a prep schools help to get in.

I think you need more of a plan.
Will you be aiming for state grammars? Is your key concern the secondary or primary experience with big numbers in state?

Just be aware that lots of Preps also don’t send many to state grammars. The figures you have showed lots going to independents - they either planned that all along or didn’t pass the state 11+. Be aware of where others will go and that it might not lead to your preferred option for secondary and be tricky if you can’t afford to continue private.

Also be aware that many many parents in indies also pay a tutor. This is rife. Parents in state schools also pay tutors. You could go to a state primary and have top tutors and pay far far less than Prep fees.

Primary isn’t 5 years but 7...same as secondary and if you save hard through primary you’ll have a good chunk for secondary if you need to pay. It might be you only need to pay for 1 or 2 as at least 1 will probably get the state grammar if you tutor and they are reasonably bright.

I’d start with state primary at least for infants but be saving hard. I’d review for juniors. Put some money into tutoring which gives very targeted exam help.

If you’re not really looking at private secondary, believe that your child’s ability, your input and the input of tutors can get them to top 25% for state grammar. If it’s not looking likely due to lower ability, move to non grammar area for excellent comp.

Things are different if you’re not in a full grammar area and already have genuine comps...but Bucks and Kent don’t.

One of my concerns would be that attending a private school would mean that my child/ren would only be mixing with children from similar socio-economic backgrounds.

Independents can vary wildly in their clientele. Some which are mega bucks really do have lots of totally loaded people, celebs, Russians oligarchs plus some dirt poor people on full bursaries.

Others are keeping their fees so low they struggle to provide as much as good state schools and often attract families who only choose them after a struggling start in state, often due to special needs of some sort. Those parents might struggle to pay the fees of a couple of grand per term and pretty much all of them have their eyes on state secondary.

Lots have a real mix of parents from those who can comfortably afford the fees from just 1 adult working and have holiday homes, huge houses and would never consider state school, to those who have 2 parents working round the clock, plus grandparent contributions too, with a view to either just Prep level or the full 14 years....all running along together.

Picking the right Prep for your family and later plans is really important. You have to work backwards. Essentially you want a Prep that sends the majority of its leavers to the kind of schools you expect yours to go to....whether that’s state grammar, independent say school or public school with boarding, or Comp. Otterwise you can quickly feel out of kilter, especially if finances limit your later options more than for most.

So check leavers destinations very carefully. Schools are often a bit reluctant to disclose, so be willing to push for the info, plus very specific info on how they prep their leavers and specifically where for. One reason lots of prep parents pay tutors is they don’t feel the school preps specifically enough for 1 type of exam but too generally to cover lots of different exams.

If you’re in a super selective state area where perhaps only 5% get the grammar places, I really wouldn’t bother with Prep unless you can easily afford it. Very focused tutors are the way to go, plus your child will need to be very clever. Peeps can’t make them top 5% if they really are more like top 35%. But in a full scale grammar area where 25% get in, a Prep which sells itself as a state 11+ Crammer , and has a history of success, might get a top 40% child in.

Think carefully. Don’t decide private is good just because you pay. Lots of state primaries do a better job than some of the tiny and honestly pretty crap little Preps. Lots of state secondaries do a better job and get better results than some of the independents.

Are you after academics and a route into selective secondary? Fab facilities and clubs? A more narrow social group with hopefully less behaviour issues? On all counts that are important to you, compare the actual independent options available to the actual state options, plus consider the time you can manage to put in yourself in terms of extra curricular ferrying and money you can spend on tutoring and weigh it all up. Often the Prep option doesn’t really stack up.

I don't understand your comment @Akindelle - there is drink/drugs/sex/antisocial behaviour at private schools and top grammar schools too.