Private just for primary

[Sunshineandsparkle]

With all of the changes that COVID has brought about, Dh and I are considering our options for schools.

We have 2 dc (aged 1 and 3) and I’m currently pregnant with dc3. Dh works full time and I work part time for now but will go back full time if necessary in the future.

We have a decent income I would say and live a comfortable life. As we will have 3 dc (and not the one/two that seems more common in families choosing to privately educate), is it unreasonable to consider going private for primary and then reverting to state for secondary.

We can afford the fees for 3 at primary level (currently 9k per year) and I know that these will go up over the years. We would definitely notice the money going out but could still afford a nice house and holidays. Currently in our area the senior school fees are 20k per year so x3 is 60k plus extras. There is no hope in hell of us affording that.

State options in our area at secondary are grammar and secondary schools with above average results. The primary schools also have a good reputation.

Is it silly to think that sending them for the part we can afford is better than not at all? They would have a good foundation and experiences which they will take to whatever secondary school they go to.

Any experience or advice is welcome. We don’t have to make a decision just yet so we’re in the discussion stages at the minute.

I think a lot of people like the idea of independent at primary in the hope that a grammar school will be on the menu at secondary, but there's no guarantee. Remember at any independent school where all your children attend, there are sibling discounts and also scholarships available, so although very expensive, it wouldn't be x3.

If you are convinced that the provision at the fee-paying school (not just academic, but all the other activities/opportunities) are superior to your local state school, you seem to be in a fortunate position of being able to afford the fees without horrendous sacrifices. How much your children like the school you're considering is also very important - after all, they are the ones spending the majority of their time there.

Lots of children move between independent/state sectors at different stages of their education. To be honest, at EYFS/KS1 if you have a lovely local state school, the children are going to have a super start to their education - there's not a huge amount of difference at that stage IMHO. John Hattie's research points to parental influence being a huge factor in the educational outcomes of children, so most children with involved, educated parents are going to have good chances whatever school they go to.

Loads of people in our (grammar) area do private primary and state secondary. I found it odd at first, but now my child is at state primary I get it.

We are at a wonderful state primary school but the class sizes are just too big and the majority if the teacher’s time is spent getting the children from neglectful backgrounds up to an ok standard.

If I could afford private primary I absolutely would do it.

Talk to the private primaries in your area and ask for statistics on where their children do secondary. You may find that most move to state secondaries (but if theg say 99% stay on where they are, it probably isn’t the school for you).

My DD is just about to start at at private primary. It is far superior to any primary school in the whole of the city apart from the other private primary that we really didn't feel was right for us.

The max class size of 12, the 30 minutes reading a day with either teacher or TA, ballet, gardening, music, PE two afternoons a week, specialist teaching from year 3, Forest school, breakfast club and after school club and countless over extra curricular activities included in fees.

If I was in your position and needed to prioritise I’d go with a good state primary. Maybe moving house to get the best school catchments possible. Some of the savings could be spend on activities outside school (sports, music etc) especially if you work part-time and can ferry children around. I do agree that the parental influence is a very big thing.

And then you can review at secondary. You might find that one of your children is very academic and would suit a grammar. Another could be a brilliant athlete or musician and better suited to an all around indie etc.

Or maybe you’ll save the money to help your children through uni and onto the property ladder.

But yes, I really wouldn’t spend on a prep school as academically you can help at home or get a tutor and all the co-curriculars at school wouldn’t be worth the money in these circumstances.

Many people do this in areas with large numbers of grammar schools for secondary, like Kent and Bucks. The thinking is that you need to be in the top 25% to get into the grammars, which is quite do-able even for an average child if they have the push from a private prep school. Probably less beneficial in say, SW London, where you need to be in the top 5% to get a grammar place.

I have considered this OP as it opens doors a bit wider for grammar schools, though of course not a guarantee and probably more of a disappointment if they don't get in! (Lots if grammar schools in my borough though so hopefully a good chance)

The thing that is making me not so sure, is the huge huge change they will experience. Primary to secondary is a huge change anyway, but to go from 18 kids in a year group and being used to a private setting and to go to maybe 120 in a year group in a state setting could really damage them. Obviously I don't know what numbers are like in the schools you're considering , but I know a friend who regrets doing it for this reason, and I met a head teacher of a private primary who ALWAYS plants this idea in potential parents' heads when they meet. Of course it depends on the child too. A child who has enjoyed the smaller setting might find it might harder than other children

If you're going to spend £18k + extras on each child's primary education, you could always consider putting this towards university or deposit on a house (admittedly it might not go as far in years to come).

Thanks everyone for your replies. It’s given us a lot to think about.

I do think that private secondary will be out of our reach with 3 dc. We have an investment property which means that we wouldn’t qualify for a bursary (I looked at the senior school website and it said that it would expect a second property to be sold to fund fees) and scholarships are only 10% off the fees as it’s more about the recognition of having one. I don’t want to put us in a position where we offer it to one and then find it impossible to do for the youngest.

We have 3 private schools close to us, one is up to 18 and the other two are up to 11. The one that is an all through school we have discounted as I couldn’t put them in and tell them they have to leave friends. A pp suggested looking at secondary destinations and for the school we like, it seems to be 20% grammar, 60% indie and 20% state.

To fund the private primary, we would pay two lots out of income and then we can use part of our savings for the third lot. Our theory then is, we can continue putting the equivalent in primary fees away during their secondary years and use this as their university fund. We could potentially look at private sixth form depending on what is best for the individual child.

Our investment property is what we would use to help them get on the property ladder as divided by 3 gives a sizeable deposit each. That is why I would be reluctant to sell it to fund secondary years as it would wipe the money out completely.

Am I being naive? Does that sound feasible? Am I overplaying the importance of a good start to their schooling by paying for them to go to a private primary? I am now more confused than ever.

Also to add, when it comes to school size, then the private has 2 classes of 18/20 per year and our catchment state school (good reputation) has 1 class of 30 per year.

I used to teach in the state sector and also tutor children for entrance exams to grammar and independent schools. Personally, we’ll go down the independent route but that’s not because I think my child would be behind compared to peers in prep schools as that’s just not the case at all. We’re going to do it purely for a nicer experience with smaller classes, extensive grounds, lots of facilities and clubs and a strong ethos of participation in sports and music. It just seems more fun than classes of 30 cramped in small spaces. But you just need to work out if it’s worth the fees to you.

By the way, parents in prep schools get tutors for their children too.

I think prep school and then independent 6th form is a good solution.

I think you'd find it very very hard going from lovely small classes at prep to the local big comp where they'll be in classes of 30+ and sharing lunch hall and school bus with noisy rabbly teens. They may struggle with the difference too.

If you have a decent state primary don't waste your money. Spend it on extra curriculars, skiing, nice holidays, music lessons, generally enriching their lives.

If you're prepared to pay 21 years of prep at £9 a year, spend that on secondary for five years (moving to state for sixth form is relatively common). That's 15 years, even at £20 it's only 50% more. You can spend the next 10 years saving the prep fees and that should cover the extra cost.

I would add that small class sizes are lovely when they are 5-6 but are actually not great when 10-11. It can be tricky socially and they can get a bit sick of each other!

If it’s absolutely the best option in your area go for it but if you get a good state primary really no need!

I also wonder about the point @titchy makes of saving for the 5 years of secondary instead. Those are far more crucial years growing up. Are you in a remote area that’s only 1 senior school nearby? There should be cheaper options than 20k per year as plenty of schools have fees lower than that even in London.

Private for secondary all the way. Waste of money doing it for primary. The first 3 years are most important for child development and children who lose out at 0-3 never make up the gains. So assuming you are engaged parents your children will already have a head start. The investment in education then becomes more about contacts, networks and exam results. Spend the money at secondary.

Please don’t work on the basis of fee reductions just because you have three dc. We had four dc in the same ( all through) private for years, as did several of our friends. One of the parents with 5 dc went to the bursar to ask for a reduction and was told “ come back when you have 7 in school at once!”
Obviously some schools will do sibling reductions but it is not a given.

Difficult choices here, but here are some things I would think about (no need to type the replies...this is more to nudge you in a direction). [I am guessing you aren't London, but commutable, by the fees you quote.]

1. How competitive is your local schooling (ask local Mumsnet/friends etc as it might save you a lot of over anxious educating/prepping/stressing)?

2. Are you and DH academic? Did you thrive at school/Uni and is this what you hope for from your children? Do you feel that they have similar personalities to you? Or maybe they need a bit of nurturing into...something.

3. Is non-grammar school at 11+ in the plan? If not, and if the feeder private secondary is non-selective, how confident are you that "private primary" will teach at the right time (or would you also pay for/do tutoring)? Our feeder was focussed on their selective entrance exam in January of yr6.

4. Did you/would you expect your child to be sporty/musical/into drama? Would you have the scope to organise this sort of thing outside of school (worth considering with 3 kids) and would you be able to facilitate this at secondary level (thinking in terms of £ and time here)?

I was that 3rd DC and I am a tiny bit resentful that my eldest brother boarded, the 2nd was driven miles to grammar....and, with a bit of an age gap, I walked to the local comp. At the time, I was just pleased to be with my friends, but it did play on my mind when I thought about 7+ for DC.

We have DC in an Independent school. Started in primary with the intention of reviewing it at Y5/6 and considering a grammar or state option. The local, state primary option has big classes which are mixed over two year groups and wasn't particularly well regarded. Local grammar and state secondary not too bad.

When it came to senior school applications we felt we just couldn't take DC out of the school they loved. All of their friends were staying on, the teachers knew them and I couldn't imagine them going from a year group of 60 (3 x 20 in a class) to a huge state school of 300 in a year.

Yes, if we'd had no choice they would have had to find a way to cope with the change but with hindsight I would never go into the private system without being able to go right through to Y11/13 if needed.

I would save money now. With tutoring at state primary one or two may get into good grammar school leaving more money for those dc who don't and can do private secondary.
I think going private primary to state secondary comp would be a big ask of them.

Me and my sister went to private primary then state secondary (I'm now 40) as my parents could only afford the former. We definitely had a head start going into secondary education compared to peers. My sister, being September born, even skipped a year. However, whilst I coped just fine with the change from small classes and 'well to do' kids to 30+ classes and the 'hard kids', my sister, with her slightly more geeky appearance and obvious intellect struggled socially throughout high school and still bears the scars. As a result of this personal experience I would say your kids personalities are paramount. Are they confident relaxed children who find it easy to make friends in any situation? Then the transition might work for them and they will benefit from the educational advantage. I looked at my school work from age 5 recently and it was unbelievable compared to what my own 5 year old child is doing at state primary.

Private wasn't an option for us, but before my kids started school if someone had given me the option of 7 years free private schooling I'd have chosen the secondary years. Now they are 13 and 16, I'd have chosen private for the primary years, at least for the eldest, but they'd still have gone to their comp. They're doing very well there and have been happy.
Their primary school was very popular with good facilities, but some of the kids (and parents) were unkind and there was a bit of a pecking order. The school didn't deal with it well. Secondary has been so much better. They've both got lots of lovely friends from a year group of 240. The cool kids don't bother them. The teachers have been great. Dd1 got great results. I've been really happy with it. (Comp in a non grammar county -Surrey)

I think your decision will ultimately depend on the actual schools in your area. My children went to the local state primary, and it is so good that I wouldn't have switched to an independent if you'd paid me to send them there. However although their secondary school is the stuff of middle-class dreams - Ofsted outstanding, high proportion of pupils going to Oxbridge, frequently mentioned in articles about good state schools, I'm not particularly impressed with the levels of pastoral care, extra-curricular activities (particularly in the arts), range of language teaching or the way distance learning was carried out during lockdown, and might consider private education if I could afford it (and wasn't morally opposed to it).

Your always going to get a mixed bag of responses on these threads.

Our two dc go to a prep school. I wanted them to have a solid foundation of what they would be learning before they went to secondary as some times the homes in the education at foundation level at can be too many to fill at secondary.

I teach sports so for me personally I know how much difference a solid foundation can matter when wanting to progress.

At primary age the kids who will later become “problems” haven’t reached that point yet. They’re still children and therefore under parental supervision. They haven’t yet started the drink/drugs/sex/antisocial behaviour. So if you have to allow your children to mix with them at either primary or secondary - primary is safer.

My two have both been to private primary and secondary. If I could only choose one it would be secondary without hesitation and the last six months have compounded this.