NEED HELP WITH PRIMARY SCHOOL ADMISSION APPEAL

[Madisonmaysmum]

Hi is there anyone on here that could help me with a primary school reception appeal? Or knows much about them!🥺

Lougle and prh47bridge have given good advice already.

I surmise that your main argument is something to do with social anxiety. It will really help if you can establish that this isn't an ICS appeal (and I see that prh47bridge is going to look at the documents for you) because that's the kind of argument that doesn't carry weight at ICS appeals because it doesn't fit any of the 3 criteria (unless you presented evidence at the time and the admissions authority overlooked it, in which case it might meet the "unreasonable" criterion). If this isn't an ICS appeal, you've got more scope for arguing for why your child needs a place at this school, but the panel will be looking for something more than your child wanting to stay with nursery friends and will expect evidence from health care professionals about (for example) social anxiety.

More than happy to offer an opinion if you want to PM your information but I would not expect it to be much different from what PRH says.

Ok, so your priorities are:

1. Ask for justification of why it's an ICS appeal. You need to get that clarified straight away. A non-ICS appeal allows arguments for why your child should be allowed a place. An ICS appeal can only look at mistakes and unreasonableness - 'unreasonable' is a really high standard to reach.

1. Compare the schools. Get a piece of paper and write down the similarities and differences.

1. Remember that you're arguing for a place at your preferred school, not against a place at the other school.

1. Cut out any mention of logistics, child care, 'wants to be with....'. it's irrelevant. It will be ignored and it will cloud your real arguments. You need clear, reasoned arguments.

1. Formulate a fairly brief but clear argument. You need to be really clear why the current school would help her socially. Just saying 'she doesn't like change' isn't going to help. You need reasons why her need for stability persist beyond a few days or weeks of 'newness'.

Once PRH47 has read through the statements I have emailed them over this morning he can probably explain a little better then I can. I may have been reading it all incorrectly.
I’m going to back to original application and see if I mentioned her social anxiety now.
Thank you all very much for your advice

This school is playing fast and loose with the infant class size regulations. They do indeed have a PAN of 21. It appears they rely on natural wastage to ensure there are no more than 60 pupils in infants.

According to the school, the information the OP has been given about class arrangement is wrong. They actually have 2 classes covering Reception, Y1 and Y2. Provided they have 60 pupils across the three years that gives them two classes of 30. These meet in classrooms with nominal capacities of 27 and 29 children.

They then have two further classes, one for Y3&4 and one for Y5&6. These classes have 40 and 41 pupils respectively in classrooms with a nominal capacity of 28 pupils. That is a lot of pupils in each class.

Their official capacity is 133 which would suggest a PAN of 19. If you add up the figures for the individual classrooms it only comes to 112. I think they are slightly understating the capacity of the classrooms but overall the picture is of a school that is packing in as many pupils as it can. If every year was full to capacity they would have 147 pupils. I note, by the way, that the school says it is currently at net capacity which is incorrect. According to their figures they are 8 over net capacity.

So where does this leave us? Is it an infant class size case?

On the figures for September the answer would appear to be yes as there will be 60 pupils in two classes covering infants. However, I think you can argue that, by setting a PAN of 21 (which, their website states, is for every year, not just for this year) the school is planning for 63 pupils in infants. They cannot assume that natural wastage will keep them the right side of the regulations. They therefore have to employ an additional teacher if all three years are full.

Admitting an additional pupil to Reception in September means they would have to employ an additional teacher immediately, but they will have to do that anyway if they take 21 next year and no-one leaves.

As things stand, if someone moves into the area and applies for a place in Y1 or Y2 for September they would have to refuse the application to stay on the right side of the regulations even though they are currently below PAN in both years. In that situation an appeal panel may decide that, because they are below PAN, they must admit.

I would argue that the reason the infant class size limit would be breached is that the school has set a PAN that means it will be breached if all three years are full, not because your child is admitted. I'm not saying the panel will definitely accept that argument but it is worth trying.

I will PM you about your case.

That's really interesting, @prh47bridge. I knew the numbers didn't add up, I just couldn't see why, from the information given. What a mess.

Okay that sort of makes sense but why did the teacher who works at the school tell me that reception are taught alone? Every year group is taught separately in the mornings too, I definitely know this to be true as my siblings went to this school. They have temporary static type buildings as well as the four classrooms.

It is important to get to the bottom of this. Are they actually teaching Reception alone all day? What are they doing with Y1 and Y2 in the morning? Are there two teachers or are they using a TA for one of the years (which would be a breach of the regulations)? And what are they doing with Y1 and Y2 in the afternoon? Putting them in the same class with a single teacher (which would also be a breach of the regulations)?

You need to ask the school these questions (without the bits in brackets!). They must answer any question you ask to help you prepare for your appeal. This information is crucial.

If it turns out that the school is breaching infant class size regulations already, the panel may well feel disinclined to treat it as an infant class size case. On the other hand, if the school is actually operating three classes it isn't an infant class size case so, since the only argument made in the council's case is that it is infant class size and they haven't identified any other form of prejudice to the school, you should win.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for this one....it's completely barmy.

There are two other people appealing too, this school is right next to the army camp hence why it mentions about the service children so there are always children leaving etc. Is that worth mentioning?
Not sure how I can contact the school as they have broken up for summer now.
Thank you so much PRH I have read your PM very helpful. I’m going to get it all wrote up for Thursday and add the things you have mentioned. You’ve been brilliant! I will let you all know the outcome! Fingers crossed for my little girl, she will struggle in the other school as it’s a lot larger.

If there are two others appealing and if the panel decides to treat it as a non-ics case, then it will entirely rely on your arguments for your DD to get a place. That means that not only do you need to convince the panel that there is room for 'a child' (in other words, it will do the school less harm to admit your DD than the harm it will cause your DD to lose the place) but also that it is your DD that needs the place over the other two children.

It is possible for a panel to decide that a school can admit more than one child on appeal, but regardless, you want to make sure that even if there is one place, it is yours.

If there is no-one at the school that will make it difficult. You need to be sure of your facts. Are you able to contact the teacher who gave you this information?

Tried asking her she gave me the email address for the school and said to ask them the questions I just hope they can get back to me before Thursday.

If the school do not get back to you, then you need to ensure that the panel have seen your email requesting the information before the appeal starts.
It is important that you do it before the panel hearing starts so that you can prove you have tried to get info and the school have failed to provide it. It also just heaps the issues on the school to properly explain, because all the questions you are asking, the panel members will want answers to, you having suggested that what the school are saying they do and what they do in reality are maybe somewhat different.

Thank you admission. Emailed yesterday and heard nothing back yet, I did message one of the teachers I know who works there she said she had told the head I had sent an email so he knows about it.. If I have no response by Tuesday I will be contacting the appeals team.

Does anyone know what will happen if the school doesn’t respond to my questions? Will the appeal be pushed back to a later date?

The appeal will start with the school / presenting officer making their case not to admit. However the panel will already know you have issues with the lack of correct information from the school. The school / presenting officer will do one of two things.They will try to address your issues at the appeal, which will immediately irritate the panel because they and you are being given new information and probably mean that the panel will adjourn the hearing at least for a short while to discuss the information you and them are now getting and decide what to do. The alternative is that the school just continue as though your email does not exist sticking with what is in their written paper. That is going to lead to a lot of questions from both you and the panel and unless they have good answers, I suspect that the school will find it difficult to confirm that the school have proved their case.
What would be useful to find out is who is the presenting officer. If they are from the school then they should clearly be able to answer all your questions about class sizes, staff etc. If however the presenting officer is from the LA, which is quite usual for maintained schools, then they will have been briefed by the school and they might suddenly find themselves with a load of question that they cannot answer. Finding out before hand will alert you to how blunt the questioning can be.

OP I hope you win your case and get the school you want for your child. If you don't though, please don't worry. In my experience (TA) shy children tend to do better in larger schools as they are more likely to 'find their tribe' as it were. Small schools often don't have enough children for the shy ones to find someone to be friends with. Also being small doesn't mean behaviour is any better. In a small school difficult behaviour is harder to dilute and other members of the class can be affected much more than in a larger school. Bigger is often better!

We have just had our meeting. The panel were very nice & understanding. The LA for the school admitted that if a year one child applied for a place this September they would have to take them on and break the regulations. So fingers crossed I’m not getting my hopes up. Said they will get back to me in the next couple of days. Will let you all know. Thank you so much for all your help.

Glad the panel were nice.

Unfortunately the appeal was declined my daughter didn’t get a place! 😭

I'm sorry to hear that ☹️

Really disappointing. Appeals are so hard to win, wasn’t worth all the stress 😭 but atleast the school she got is a really good school!