Emanuel School, London - does anyone know it?

[mwamwa]

Have just been to an Open Day at Emanuel School in Clapham. Overall impression amongst the crowds was quite good and I just wondered whether anyone has any positive or negative thoughts about the place.?

esr1407, oh dear, I hope with a bit of distance you can see how badly your post came across. I also love Emanuel but not because of the climbing wall or the pool or the boathouse or how vastly superior it apparently is to a 'state school'. I also prioritise my DC's happiness over academic achievement but don't the fancy facilities (not that they are particularly compared to other private schools). I would be put off the school reading your post...

Since people always seem to rate schools on Oxbridge offers, Emanuel has 6 this year which is the same as Putney High I believe. I am sure St Pauls and KCS will have more but how much is any of it down to the 'added value' of any of these schools or just the selective intake.

Also the head is moving on after about 15 years to the become the CEO of the Alpha Group (yes, I know the comment about him up thread is about a decade old).

No idea when it's likely successor will be announced.

If it's not all that academically then why spend what probably amounts to 80K+ on school fees for a child to go there?

Is it because you don't want them to mix with ordinary kids from poor families?

Kids go to local comprehensives, get great GCSE and A-level results, and make nice friends, but some people will still spend a fortune on keeping their kids out of these places.

The attainment 8 score at Emanuel is lower than at my dc's comp in Southwark - a school which takes loads of kids from huge council estates in Peckham. How does that happen when Emanuel is spending more than twice as much per head as my dc's school, and will categorically exclude the children who are the poorest performers - poor AND low achieving.

Mini: Government data on independent schools are full of pitfalls. In this case it seems English is completely excluded, probably due to igcse rather than gcse. Given zero percent Ebac and zero percent achieving G or better in English, I expect Attainment 8 has been pulled down similarly by this (and perhaps other gaps).

This was just a quick look on my phone, might have missed something.

I am not saying that Emanuel is hugely academic, but perhaps better than DFE stats indicate.

62 percent A/A* at GCSE, apparently. Not the level of most comps

Mini I think there must be a problem with the government ''attainment 8 data" for independent schools. E.g according to those Eton, North London Collegiate, Westminster, Wycombe Abbey are all below the England average whilst poor old Latymer is a full 50% down on the national average. Clearly incorrect.

As for Emanuel - going by the more reliable GCSE passes, 62% A/A is better than 98% of state secondaries (of 3,300 state secondary schools in the UK, only 70 got 62% A/A at GCSE last year www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/08/26/gcse-results-2016-state-school-results/).

That's why most people who choose to go private do it. Plus of course many of these schools (don't have kids at Emanuel so don't know) have great facilities too. They also often offer a broader curriculum than many state schools - both for exam subjects and for extracurricular activities. Its for the extra opportunities they often offer not social segregation. People chose private schools because they think they are best for their children, that's all.

What's the difference between extra opportunities and social segregation?

Roundabout. Is that a serious question or are you trying to make a point?

Making a point. If you want more for your children than over 90% of parents can afford and access that via their school, which takes up a large chunk of their waking hours, especially in private schools with all their extra-curricular activities, you are practising and perpetuating social exclusion. There isn't a huge amount of difference between actively wanting that social exclusion and not being bothered about the inevitable result of your actions, so it seems a bit silly to me to argue the difference.

round this is a thread about Emanuel school. Can you explain the demographics of that school, and that of the surrounding area? Is there a big difference?

Yes, I would have thought there is - or are you suggesting that 93% of families in that area could afford to send their children to Emmanuel?

I thought it was surrounded by extremely expensive houses. And is adjacent to the most expensive parts of Nappy Valley.

Could you explain the demographics of this particular school (bursary levels and the effect of the 10+ entry point) and the postcodes contiguous to where it stands a bit more fully, as it seems I've missed or misunderstood it.

The 7% figure is for all pupils, across the whole country, and covers all age groups (so it's often overlooked that 20% of sixth formers go private and the number at primary is way lower than 7%).

Except in places like affluent bits of SW London. Where about 20% go private even at primary, more for secondary. So actually yes I think plenty of local families can afford private school there, and Emanuel has rather lower fees than many (on a par with GDST schools) and one of the largest bursary schemes (assuming it does really run as described)

Still, just under 40% of the people in the postcode of the school are in social grades C2, D and E, none of which would be able to afford school fees and far from all of which will be childless. I seriously doubt those in class C1 ("lower middle class") could afford school fees, either - we are, after all, talking of somewhere between £15,000 and £20,000 per child per year. That leaves just under a third of people in that postcode who could well afford it...

Still, if you want to justify further social exclusion by pointing out the social iniquities of the housing market, go bust a gut! Two wrongs don't make a right, so if social exclusion bothered you, you wouldn't ensure your social exclusivity twice over, through housing and schooling, so no point pretending it bothers you and that doing it for the "extra opportunities" is meaningfully different.

"I'm not socially exclusive, I just don't think state schools offer enough."

I can't work out why Emanuel (one of the cheaper schools, with some of the largest bursary provision, and mainly local pupils) is being singled out for this type of comment, whilst the zillions of threads about the other SW London schools - more expensive, not filled with local pupils, fewer bursaries - have not attracted it.

Is there a specific grudge against this specific school? In which case, it might be more helpful to parents considering it to say what that issue is, rather than just derailing by generalising (when discussion of other schools is not derailed in the same way)

Anothernewt. I was thinking precisely the same thing! I cannot imagine why a thread on Emanuel has been derailed in this way.

Round. I am sure you can start another thread on the iniquities of private schooling. It is not as if it hasn't been discussed many times on Mumsnet.

So to get back to the actual original post about Emanel School. My DS went there and did really well. He and all his friends got fantastic results, with all A and A* grades, went off to Oxbridge and top RG unis (as in Bristol, Durham, Warwick, Imperial, Edinburgh etc). They did loads of additional activities, as in drama, rowing etc. The teaching staff seemed pretty good.

It is also significantly cheaper than all the other boys private schools in SW London so although it probably wasn't my first choice at the time, I'm really pleased my DS went there.

I have no problem whatsoever with Emanuel school. I am sure it is cheaper and less socially exclusive than other private schools nearby, hence some of the snotty comments about it upthread from people who prefer other schools . What I took exception to was coldandold's description of why most people choose private schools. IMO, it is hugely hypocritical to try to justify your choices to others by pretending you are not buying social exclusivity. By wanting more and better than most people can have or aspire to really does make you someone who enjoys social exclusivity. Almost all human beings enjoy this to a certain extent, but British society still enjoys it with knobs on, as demonstrated by the continued thriving of private schools, underfunding of state provision and growing massive inequalities. There is no talking your way out of it if you are happy to admit you do not think what the state has to offer is good enough for your children.

One of my son's friends is there and he loves it. It suits him. He would be lost somewhere else in a way he wasn't in his state primary. I wouldn't say it's any better than a state comp but having survived two south London state schools myself I think his parents made the right choice. Most of the state schools can be very tough places for some children, despite how much people praise them. It will, like any other school, suit some and not others. Calling any school crap because of the one or two experiences of others is not good. You and your child need to feel right in the school.

I looked at a lot of the South London schools, for my son personally I liked Lambeth Academy the best. I wouldn't send my daughter there though. Different strokes for different folks.

In other words, Emanuel school is a great school if you like it, but is not quite as socially exclusive as other schools, so you will find some people look down on you for spending lots of money on something they consider not to confer sufficient advantages over the rest of the hoi polloi. Spend a bit more and you won't need to be embarrassed at dinner parties.

Well, aren't all schools great if you like them, and they are a good fit for your DC?

And yes, roundabout as you seem to prize exclusivity and bragging rights above the things that other parents base their choices on, it may well not be the school for you.

Not the school for me because my children are happy in their state comprehensive, TrojanWhore. However, have you failed to notice that any criticism on this thread levelled at the school seems to relate entirely to it being too much like a good state comprehensive?