How small is too small for a 6th form?

[Darshika]

DS’s school keeps cutting subjects - and he’s had some issues with school. I’m getting cold feet about him staying on where he is & looking at a local private school which I’ve heard is good pastorally.

Only thing is - the current school has about 200 kids in Y12. The private school has 20.

Is this a positive? Or far too small - and possibly even a sign that they are struggling to recruit & may become unviable in the future?

There are lots of dependencies really. Would your son be better in a smaller environment or is he a bigger character who needs a bigger school? Is he quite shy and would benefit from a smaller class where he can grow in confidence or is he confident in lost settings?
Equally depending on how academic he is, if you have your eyes set on a Russell group university , remember that a lot now give preference to state educated pupils, so putting him in to a private 6th from might effect his university application. That said, not many universities will turn down a good student with good grades , but certainly here in SW London, I know lots of people pulling kids out of private 6th form and going state for that reason.

If you are worried about how financially viable the school is, you can usually google their Accounts for last year and get a good idea via companies house. If it has always been a small school then it’s probably nothing to worry about. Or, is the 6th form quite new? In which case it takes a school time to build it up

Ignore the above poster about RG unis being more likely to offer a place to state school kids - it's bollocks. (If they are taking their kids out of private at sixth form it'll be for other reasons, whatever they tell you ).

20 as a cohort sounds waaay too small. Unless they only offer five or six subjects class sizes will be too small to teach well. Socially that's probably far too few as well, unless he is extraordinarily lucky. How many are in the year 11 cohort and why do the majority leave after GCSEs? Are the ones that are left the ones that struggle, socially or otherwise?

Don't forget at university he'll be with hundreds if people. Easier to find your tribe the more there are to choose from.

I would be concerned about availability of courses depending on A level choices. Drama A level with one in the class would be no fun . Ditto any other A level with low numbers. I think there needs to be a minimum number in the class for healthy debate. Also what about extra ciriculum subjects like sports teams etc. For me personally 20 in the year would be too small

20 sounds ridiculously small for a cohort.

Apart from 'finding your tribe' - which is important - does this school do all the subjects your DS is interested in, will they definitely continue to do so, and what are the results like? If your DS is interested in this school despite its size, you should ask them some hard questions re finance, viability etc - don't forget you're a potential paying customer.

the current school has about 200 kids in Y12. The private school has 20.
Are those the only two options available? If so, it sounds like the private school is regularly losing pupils to the state school ... which should tell you something.

I would be concerned about availability of courses depending on A level choices.
Don't forget that many students change their minds about a subject so while the small school may offer what he thinks he wants to do, they may not offer acceptable alternatives if needs be.

They did literally enter one student for some A Levels last year - so seems like they run all courses.

The state have cut everything that had fewer than 15 enrolled.

He has had MH difficulties last few years (ASD based) and a complicated situation with another child at the current school - hence ‘tiny’ feels safe and appealing - but I’m possibly emotionally overeacting and channelling my anxiety.

One student in an A level class is unbelievably poor. I can understand your concerns about another student in the state school, but only running classes where they have 15 seems ok tbh. It doesn't sound like the private school is the solution though.

Are his classes likely to be cut? Is there another alternative?

Yes - he’s lost 2/3 of his original options - including what he wanted to study at uni

It’s much too small. How can they run enough A levels? And 1 in a class is terrible, there needs to be at least 5 or 6 to get any kind of rapport, debate and peer support. Not to mention that it’s no way big not to be socially restrictive.

I think you need to find a bigger private school or another state school which runs enough courses.

I think you need to look further afield. Even a significant journey so he can do the subjects he wants. Sorry though. Poor ds.

Personally , if he is better in a small group for his MH , then it wouldn’t put me off. Essentially he could be getting almost 1 2 1 tutoring in his a levels and as long as he has friends outside of his 6th form that he can socialise with, then it wouldn’t really matter. I would also caution about going to far a field. We have friends whose kids travel for 2 hours a day (1 hour each way) for their schools and it takes quite a robust child to be able to do that. Does the private 6th form offer the a levels he wants to do and more importantly, have you been to see it and did you and he like it?

Difficult if the state school no longer does the A level in the subject he wishes to pursue at university. Does the independent school offer it? Agree you need to let your DS visit and see how he feels about the place.

If for any reason he does not get on with someone at the independent 6th form there won't be many places to 'hide'/find a new group of friends if there are only 20 of them. Agree with PP he needs a good friendship group outside school if he moves.

Are there any other options available that run the subjects he wants to do? Look at colleges as well as schools.

Running an A-Level with 1 student is no fun for student or teacher. I'd say 5 is probably a minimum to have a good discussion/learning from each other/ be able to help each other with problems etc. Have you asked the private school how many they anticipate or have signed up for the particular subjects he wants to do?

He hasn't seen it 'in action' (due to Apocalypse) - but he is aware of it.

He thinks it is cosy but quite an extreme contrast to where he is (... and that that would be a storing up a potential culture shock for the hustle and bustle of university...) - but can see that in a small setting like that he would find it easier to catch up if he has to take time out for MH (and indeed would have less triggers) - so that it would be a more secure route to reach his academic potential.

He would have between 5 and 10 people in 2 subjects - but a tiny class (potentially taught alone) for the 'niche' A-Level that links to his preferred degree course.

Is the niche A level one that he actually needs for uni? It sounds as though it isn't.

Do you think he could cope with uni?

Is there a third option?

Too small.

You need a decent sized group in subjects to get decent debate and discussion at A level, not just a teacher telling you what to think.

Not a big enough social scene either. If there is an 'issue' with another child, it is quite likely that at least half the year will also be involved.

What about extra curricular - that's not big enough for many sports teams etc.

How big is the rest of the school? What about staff numbers? Will he be without a teacher everytime one of the lower years has a field trip or outing?

I would also query how many are leaving the school at the end of Y11, and why. Additionally, how many join the 6th form and from where.

I attended a very small 6th Form with about 35 in my year. I was in classes of 2 in some subjects but it was amazing and for me it meant that I got totally personalised teaching! I’m looking for schools now for my own daughter and have asked this at some of them - especially single sex schools tend to lose girls at y12 but that doesn’t mean they are vulnerable financially - if it’s an all through school the 6th form is just a loss leader. It’s like a nursery in a small prep.

Yes - its an all through school - 1 form entry juniors/seniors & 6th form. The 6th form did used to be a bit bigger - I will ask how many are actually enrolled next year & the other questions from @Seeline.

Anything else I should ask the admissions tutor?

DS is minded to start at his old school and think about moving after a few weeks depending how it feels being back (and with the benefit of being able to visit the school & even see his future class mates to make up his mind).

One form all the way through?! How on earth is that financially sustainable? They must have teachers covering several subjects - check.

I read the accounts like a pp suggested. They have reserves and fee income rose by 10% last year (apparently they are growing the senior school - maybe in response to the challenges you’re all seeing) - but at least it reassures me that its small but hopefully stable...

If you are unsure, then why not speak to the Admissons at the private school and explain the situation to them. Most private schools have heard it all before and will suggest options. Be honest and say you would rather leave him where he is, but if he needs to transfer, do they have in year spaces. Does the private school start back earlier than the current school so he can do a taster day?
Ultimately small will either suit or not suit your son. We have a very small school with 1 form each year entry near us and 75% of the students that stay on , get A*-A at A level. The schools puts this down to the students having smaller classes and more personalised lessons .
That size of class and year will suffocate a lot of kids, but it will help others to thrive and really only you know which environment would best suit your DS and help him to achieve his potential.
Ring admissions and talk through what you have put im your opening post. They will help you

I teach a subject that is often taken at A Level, and have taught classes of 32 in Y12. I now teach classes of between 1 - 8 in a sixth form of a similar size to the one you're considering - and I would definitely say it is down to the individual. Would your son be comfortable with more 1:1 or small group teaching, where there is no place to hide or would he feel more comfortable in a larger group where he can interact as and when he feels confident.

Oh and in reply to pp, I don't tell any student how to think, how very 1970s 🙄

I teach in a school with 40-50 per sixth form year and we do sometimes have only 1 or 2 students in a subject. I think that's still better than not being able to do it at all
But I think 20 is very small - not much choice of friends