Here we go again! Yr1 teacher wanted a word ... again

[roisin]

Ds2's teacher has 'had words' on 3 out of the last 4 school days . Today she said "He doesn't speak to me like a 5-yr-old, he speaks to me like a stroppy teenager. He's argumentative, he answers back, and he always has an excuse for everything."

He speaks to me like that too, doesn't respond to carrots or sticks at the moment, (likes carrots, but they don't actually motivate him to change his behaviour), and he is incredibly stubborn.

Anyone got any suggestions?

I'm being a bit lighthearted about this, but that's not really how I'm feeling. At this stage (4 wks into yr1) ds1 was by far the most challenging child in the class (though in different ways). I just didn't expect to go through this all again with ds2 as he is so different. To be honest I just don't have the emotional energy at the moment for this.

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Oh, roisin

Have you tried doing a "life's too short for all this aggravation" talk with him? OK, yes, parents and teachers are annoying but you are five years old fgs, you have a minimum of 11 more years to go through this system and it will pass a lot quicker without all this grief? What is the point???

As if you were talking to a teenager - you know!

Oh hell, sorry that you are having such a hard time of it. It must be doubly hard for you to have it at home as well.

Big stick? Withdrawal of things that he realy loves? I realise that this would be very tough on you, but good for him in the long run? A mate took away ds's playstation (gave it to us in fact) for a week because of stroppy 'teenage' behaviour. Worked too but now I have my kids asking for a playstation

My 2 dds are responding remarkably well to Shrek Stickers. my dd is going to school happy that shes had a sticker, for eating breaky and is spending 30p buying a pack in the morning, motivating her to get ready with no hassle, and then coming home eager to put them in her album and tidying up hoping to get an extra one...not joking, and my dd is a stubborn, teenage strop type child..

Dd , who is almost 8 is on a star chart at the mement to stop her throwing wobblies in school.....it never seems to end does it?

Hugs to you.

Thanks all. Just read your post Janh - you're the teenage expert - can I just send him to you for a week or five?

He got to see the Deputy Head today for a long chat, but when they came back into the classroom he was rude to his teacher in front of the DH!

He will be going to see the Head later in the week - probably tomorrow. She is a superb person, and has done wonders for ds1. He has always responded very well to her, so I'm just hoping she can work some magic for ds2 as well.

Am keeping trying with the carrots. I bought them books at the bookfair today - tacky ones that they got to choose themselves rather than worthy educational ones - but ds2 isn't getting his until his teacher says his behaviour has improved loads.

I'm trying to think of a big stick hmb, but honestly can't think of one. He doesn't really watch any TV or videos atm, or use PC, we don't have playstation or gameboys or anything like that [Boot camp here you know!]. When he comes home from school he tends to do different things every day, so if I banned one he'd just choose something else.

Any suggestions to get me going?

That would be great, wouldn't it - swapping kids? I think we would all benefit - seriously!

If we were here at halfterm I would suggest another interesting meetup - coats this time! - but we're not unfortunately.

He sounds as if he's looked up "challenging behaviour" in a book. We were watching an old Malcolm in the Middle last night, where the 3 youngest were in DEEP trouble at home and rang the eldest at army camp for tactical advice on handling Mom...it was very funny but probably not very helpful for you!

No big carrots? Nothing you think he would like to do or have or see in the next week or two?

We don't have play stations or the like either.....my kids think I am the worst mother ever . They do get to play on the computer tho, and threatening withdrawal of time does have a good effect.

How about you get him to do some chores in his free time?

I know this makes me shound like a hard arse, but you did say that carrots wern't working. But then you said that stick were no good either

At a bit of a loss to know what to suggest.

Mind you you may find that the Head is a big enough stick. It's amazing how different kids can be with different authority figures. I hope it goes well, and will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Oh, re swapping kids my MIL swapped with her friend's family when she was a stroppy teen. She said it made her realise that everyones family got on your case!

When DS1 was having problems in YR (due to boredom mainly it turned out later), I tried to work with the school. The school had a system where a child was given a card with five sections on it (one for each day of the week). Each section was then divided into 5 more (for 5 distinct periods during the day, e.g. before break, after break, lunchtime, before afternoon break and after afternoon break IYSWIM!). If DS1 got through a period without any problems, he was allowed to put a stamp in that period's "slot". With me so far? It became quite an interesting challenge for him to see if he could get 5 stamps on a day's line.

I would then check with his teacher at the end of each day as to how many stamps he had on his card. If he got 5 stamps, he was then allowed to put a sticker on a chart I had made at home. The chart was a long winding river and, at certain points on the river, we had stuck a picture of a (small and not very expensive) toy he wanted (pics taken from Argos cat. or similar). To get his first toy, he had to get 4 stickers in a row (meant he could get his first reward within a week), the second required 5 and so on, up to 10. By the time we reached the 10 stickers toy, his behaviour was not causing any problems in school.

Sounds complicated but it isn't. In fact the only difficult thing about it was dealing with his younger brother (DS3 was too young thank goodness) wanting a toy because "I'm always good at school, Mummy". True, so he had to have one too!

Hmb ... you are not going to believe this ... he actually enjoys doing chores!!!

Trying to think about carrots though ... he does want to go and see the new film in half term - (something about a shark?) that would be a big carrot for him ... might be worth a try.

But if you use it as a carrot you will have to stick to your guns if he doesn't earn it...which can be v v difficult.

Does he want to visit me???

Yes, and then it's hard on ds1 as he won't be able to go either! I have got a pretty good track record on carrying out threats, it's just with ds1 it works ... with ds2 it generally doesn't

Oh well school just got a fabulous, wonderful, amazing Ofsted report: 1s and 2s for everything. My sons just give them opportunity to prove they deserve the accolade

at a loss to sugggest anything you haven't tried, roisin.

I wonder if the stroppy teenager-ness of ds2 is a copy of some of ds1's behaviour at school, before the school sorted things out. Perhaps he's got it into his mind it's a pattern he has to follow. A bit of a simplistic interpretation, I know, but there might be an element of that?

Has your ds2 got any friends who are really well behaved at school - very in awe of the teacher? My oldest son has a friend like this and being with him helps my son to see you can be a 10 year old boy, have fun and be reasonably good at the same time My son tends to follow his example because he really likes his friend.

We helped the friendship along by organising playdates etc and at school the teacher sat my son next to his friend as much as possible. I find my son's behaviour even now is still dependent on those he sits near to in the classroom. Are you happy about who your ds1 sits next to in school?

My ds2, as you know, is also in year one and we have had some glitches with his behavior. We have a home school behaviour book at the moment. Tonight I have parents evening and I am not expecting an easy meeting with his teacher. I know just what you mean about not having the emotional energy to cope with this again. We had enough problems with ds1 and ds2 has such a different personality and can be so kind and fair that I thought I wouldn't be hearing the same old phrases from the teacher yet again. I feel like turning away from it all, but know that's not productive so will grin and bear the meeting and hope it's not at bad as I expect.

Tigermoth - thanks for your post. Hope your P/T meeting goes well, and you get to hear some positive things. I know you've got a lot on your plate at the moment as well.

DS2 slept badly last night, and got up VERY early this morning. This means he is worrying about it, which I guess is a good thing as it means we're getting through to him; but it's also means he's going to be exhausted at school today, which usually spells disaster.

I feel so defensive about it all, and have to consciously fight against it. As logically I know his teacher is excellent, the school is superb, and his behaviour is unacceptable. This morning when I heard him up so early, I was secretly hoping he was going to be ill, so that I could keep him home for the day and just let him chill out a bit.

Roisin, just read your posts of yesterday - not been on mumsnet for a couple of days
If your ds likes doing chores so much, could you try a jobs chart at home linked to a reward i.e. money - but with a school column on each day, to show if he's been good at school and does that days job he gets the money, if he's not been good he has to do the job for free?? could something like this work on a short term basis, just to break the cycle of bad behaviour?
Is he motivated by money? most kids are

Oh Roisin, I don't have any suggestions that haven't already been aired on this thread, just wanted to say sorry to hear of the aggro. It really is the worst when these little tykes still manage to be unhelpful in what is obviously a really good, supportive setting, isn't it. Ds, also Y1, is filling the pages of his home contact book too, because our flash point is bedtime, which is not happening early enough and in consequence, he is tired and dreamy at some points in the school day. "Defensive" is the word, isn't it. Closely followed by "exasperated". We have done the teen talk with him too, JanH - in our case it has worked to some extent.
Good luck with your meeting tonight Tigermoth.

sit down and talk to him and let him tell you what he thinks happens in class - see if he can tell you why he is doing the things he is doing and what he wants to happen.

roisin, my only words of anything other than sympathy are - it's nearly halfterm, they're shattered (so probably are the teachers), and year 1 is a big increase in demands - I would guess especially if the school is such a very good one.

I've also got a yr 1 boy as you know and we're not doing very well just now. Latest attempt to help is a marble jar at school: start with 5, each bit of paying attention wins one, each bit of playing the fool loses. Idea is something like Freckle's, in that he's got a constant ongoing record to look to. Sadly the marble total is in steady incremental decline.

DS2 has been 'good' at school for the last two days ... rather slow to do his work, but at least he has been polite and well-behaved. We haven't got a home-school book, and as this hasn't been suggested, I have been making a point of asking his teacher at the end of each day how he's been; so that he can be rewarded/praised for success.

Also today ds1's teacher deliberately sought me out to tell me how well behaved he had been today on a school trip, which was lovely to hear (and rather surprising, as he tends to get over-excited for such things.)

So I'm happy mummy tonight, and just hope we can get through another week til half term with no further crises.

Thanks again for all your support and helpful suggestions.

Roisin

That's great, roisin - bless his cotton socks!