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Original poster

PT teachers - working on days off and pay??? Help!

38 replies

Hulababy · 12/10/2004 14:43

Hi all, any part timers out there who know the score on doign INSET, etc. on days off and pay arrangments. What I thought was the case (message 2 years ago from NASUWT union) my school is saying is wrong

I have contacted headquarters of NASUWT this afternoon and sent them this message:

Dear Sir

I am a member of the NASUWT and have been since starting working as a teacher in 1996. For the past three years I have been working part time, 3 days a week, and now 2 days a week. Until this acandemic year I have not done any INSET sessions on my days off, as I was unable to get childcare. This did not seem to cause any problems with the school for the past two years.

This year my circumstances have altered slightly, and childcare can be provided for INSET days. I work Tuesday and Wednesdays. This year's our INSET days on on either Mondays or Fridays. Therefore I have agreed to attend INSET days on my days off - there are 5 in this year. I have already done two of these. I claimed for pay for the first one. However when I went to claim for yesterday's INSET day I was told that there may be a problem and I may not be entitled to pay for some of these INSET days.

According to school I am contractually bound to do a percentage (40%) of these INSET days at no extra pay, even though they are not on my normal working days. This is not what I was led to believe and it of a a big concern to me. I have so far done two extra days and now face the prospect of getting no pay for these days, despite having to pay our childcare costs and travel expenses to attend.

Could you clarify for me whether this is indeed the case, and that I should be expected to work, without pay, on my days off?

Many thanks.

Anyone here have any experience, etc. of this. At the monet I am really fed up and aggrieved. I am doing INSET for the school's benefit - no HoD, attainment is very low in some KS3 classes, school in special measures, etc. - but it just isn't worth my while doing it for nothing. Infact I am losing out here. DH is going to go mad when I tell him this later on.

Grrr... all this after a Y10 lad telling me to f* off when I asked f he would like to turn his computer on this lesson, and a Y9 class from hell revisited

Can anyone help?

TIA

OP posts:
popsycal · 12/10/2004 14:46

hula - i wil contact you later on as i was chatting to one of our PT teachers last week about this....not sure how much help it would be though

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 14:52

Cheers Popsy. In my fee now - have detention and meeting tonight Really don't feel like it at moment.

One thing though. If school are going to stick by this 40% malarky, then as far as I can tell that means I only have to do 40% of all contracted meetings and/or parents evenings too. As these are all on the dfays I work....

OP posts:
popsycal · 12/10/2004 14:53

yes - you are right about the meeting thingy too
gotta dash to midwife

donnie · 12/10/2004 15:02

Hulababy, it sounds like they are taking the mick somewhat. You should be contractually bound to 40% and no more. If they want you to come to school on days off then you either get paid (supply rate - insist) or you get other days off in lieu.Nasuwt will conform this I am sure.Don't let them take advantage of your good nature, cos they will - schools have to! HTH.

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 15:12

Cheers Donnie. That's my thought. I am more than willing to give up a day off here and there for IBSET (as I know it really in beneficial to beith school and department, and me really) if I do. But I can't afford to work on my days off - opaying childcare costs and travelling - without pay. Sounds madness!!!

OP posts:
Yorkiegirl · 12/10/2004 15:40

Message withdrawn

hana · 12/10/2004 16:43

hula, sounds like you have an unsupportive SMT.
I have also been working part time for the past 3 years. I only attending training days if they happened to be on the days I work (sometimes are, sometimes aren't) If it was one SMT wanted me to attend, I am paid a pro-rata rate, which would be slightly more than a standard supply rate.
Hope you get positive advice from your union and that the school sticks by what they 'have' to do.

hana · 12/10/2004 16:44

like yorkiegirl - I sometimes ask for a day in liue instead if it suits me better! But always nice to have the extra pay if someone is around for dd

Christie · 12/10/2004 18:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pixiefish · 12/10/2004 18:42

Hula. If the INSET is on a day that you work normally then you have to attend. As this ISN'T the case then you DO NOT have to attend any of them. If you agree to attend then you are entitled to full pay for the INSET days. This applied to meetings and parents evenings. Ie- if you work tues and weds and your meetings are on a monday then you don't have to attend any of them- unless the school pay you to. If your meetings are on a day that you work then you have to attend a pro rata number of meetings- same for parents evenings. I work monday and tuesday and should attend 40% of the meetings which means i should attend 12 meetings. as my school want me to do more than 40% of parents evenings I'm going to take that off the meeting quota.
This info is on page 26 of the nasuwt conditions of service for part time teachers... i'm sure that they'll send you a copy- if not then i can send you a copy of mine next week.

geogteach · 12/10/2004 19:11

I was always told I had to do pro rata too so 60% even if on my days off, same with meetings.

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 19:17

Thanks everyone.

Pixiefish - I am off to see if there is an online version of the document now. I knew I shouldn't do them for nothing - I just need the evidence! Page 26, here I come You're a star!

Interstingly I also now have more ammunition - I do all meetings and all parents evenings as they are on my contracted days but in reality, according to this document, I should only be doing 40% - so I am doing them a favour ere already.

And they ought to remind themselves that I did resign last year anyway and only agreed to come back to help them out as they coldn't get replacements for the whole depoartment - HoD and both department members left - only one was replaced! Not the HoD either.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 19:18

There is no way at all I am prepared to do any other stuff on my days off unless I have it guaranteed I am getting paid.

OP posts:
codswallop · 12/10/2004 19:18

sorry to repeat but I b nevre di ones that were on my days off

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 19:19

Cheers coddy - seems school are taking the mick somewhat here. But I am the new me now! I am going to stand my ground.

PS. Good to see you back

OP posts:
codswallop · 12/10/2004 19:19

ta
was very bad.

codswallop · 12/10/2004 19:20

hula
my sister though is a rpivate scho teacher and she does loads of stuff on her day s off - even effing sports day

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 19:23

I just don't get it! I can't really afford to go throwing away money - if I do INSET on days off (which I am prepared to do) I have to have childcare and travel costs (which I am not prepared to not re-coup) in earnings!!!

OP posts:
codswallop · 12/10/2004 19:23

no do NONE!

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 19:29

Found this on the general Pay & Conditions on NAS site:

"59.4 Such a teacher shall be available to perform such duties at such times and such places as may be specified by the head teacher (or, where the teacher is not assigned to any one school, by his employer or the head teacher of any school in which he may for the time being be required to work as a teacher) for 126 5 hours in any school year, those hours to be allocated reasonably throughout those days in the school year on which he is required to be available for work. "

The last line is the key here:

"throughout those days in the school year on which he is required to be available for work"

I am only contracted to work on Tuesday and Wednesday - therefore,as INSETs here are on Monday and Friday, I am not required to be available for work - therefore I don't HAVE to do them.

OP posts:
pixiefish · 12/10/2004 20:38

cat me your address if you want a photocopy of my stuff hula

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 20:39

That would be fab Pixiefish - can you e-mail me on claireandrich(at)beeb(dot)net? Quicker than CAT!

OP posts:
pixiefish · 12/10/2004 21:25

have emailed you hula.

Original poster
Hulababy · 12/10/2004 21:30

Got it and responded. Just relaised I didn't put my address though. LOL Will go do it now!

OP posts:
pixiefish · 12/10/2004 21:38

'Part-time teachers should be offered the opportunity to attend all INSET days, including those which take place on days when they do not normally teach, for professional development reasons and should be properly paid for doing so. Failure to allow part-time employees the opportunity to attend training available to full-time employees is now unlawful. The NUT supports part-time teachers? right to have access to the full extent of professional development opportunities available to their full-time colleagues. In such circumstances, payment should be made by including this time in their contractual working hours as outlined above. Where it has not been so included, part-time teachers should be paid on a supply basis for attending INSET on days when they do not normally teach.'

found this here - it's the NUT site (which has more info than the Nasuwt site- horrors of horrors-this may be quicker than snail mail hula