How many teachers have had a career elsewhere?

[Earnsomething]

And if they have, does that change their perception of how good/bad the job is?

I've been teaching for 6 years now, after 23 years in Corporate Banking.

Teaching brings a unique set of challenges and pressures but that's the point, that's why it's so rewarding IMO. There is a level of scrutiny (doesn't there need to be?) but nothing like what I experienced before where results and progress were reported weekly and moved to daily if you were considered to be underperforming. OFSTED like audits happened four times a year.

I work fewer hours now and have more flexibility over when I work them (outside 9-4), then there are the holidays, during which, yes I do some work but in my past life, if I had a holiday coming up in 6 weeks, it was getting close. My work life balance is better, by a long way.

Students and parents can be unreasonable in their demands but so can customers at a bank, believe me!

I don't earn as much, but then I'm fairly new in the job. My salary before was similar to a UPS3 teacher with TLR, so not different to many teachers with 23 years' experience.

I hear the complaints of my colleagues and yes, of course we all have days when we think we'd rather do anything else, but sometimes I wonder if they would benefit from having done "anything else". Most teachers, apart from PT jobs whilst studying, don't seem to have done other work.

Please don't see this as teacher bashing, I'm just interested in why so many teachers seem so unhappy, when it's by far the best job I've ever had, in so many ways.

Clearly the OP is trolling, hasn't checked backed in

In Ireland teachers can take up to five years off for a career break. It's a recruitment thing. Helps keep teachers in the long run.Many travel or study then go back to their teaching job.

I had another career before teaching. Went back to it because teaching was shit.
My generalisation i.e. from people I met during my teaching career is that it didn't matter too much if someone had had another job before, except for calling upon real life examples maybe. I did find - again, my general experience - that many teachers who had gone to uni specifically with the intention of teaching were extremely childish in their outlook and interaction with other adults, and treated them like they were children. Some of you will take umbrage at this I am sure, despite my caveat that it is my 'anecdata', but it is what I found.

I agree that real life experience in something outside the public sector should be a requirement

What real life experience would that be then? Do tell.

It’s interesting you jumped straight from just doing Supply in state schools to a ‘lovely indie secondary’. Even with your non specific ‘industry’ experience, it doesn’t sound like it prepared you for a permanent position in a state school does it?

I did my PGCE at 41 after a previous career.
I've now been qualified 7 yrs. I've worked with fantastic young teachers who have a teaching degree. I've also worked with fantastic teachers my age who have been teaching all of their working lives.
To be quite honest, this whole thread is getting a bit ridiculous with some of the comments.

@BeltaneBride

the holidays are a massive bonus. I don't think people who have only ever worked in education realise what a privilege the holiday are.

For someone that claims to have worked outside of education you don't seem to understand the difference between contracted rights and privilege.

I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong because unless a colleague is new to the school I never think to ask them if they have worked somewhere else first - why on earth would I? If (and it's not everyday) I get the chance to chat to colleagues we talk about our holidays and night out and children and food - who keeps a spreadsheet of the prior experience of their colleagues, and charts this against their view of the colleague's classroom effectiveness? get a life

@BeltaneBride

I worked in industry for many years before teaching. I love teaching but don't regret coming to it later. Work in a few state schools doing supply initially but now work full time a lovely indie secondary. With fewer hours now than in previous career, can walk to work and the holidays are a massive bonus. I don't think people who have only ever worked in education realise what a privilege the holiday are. I agree that real life experience in something outside the public sector should be a requirement -but it will never happen in the state sector, sadly.

But teaching is "real life", it's just a different "real life" to that which a doctor experiences, which is different to the "real life" an estate agent experiences and so on.

Apart from saying that people don't appreciate their holidays, what other argument do you have for suggesting teachers get "real life experience" outside the public sector?

And interesting that you don't consider other public sector jobs "real life" either. What about librarians? NHS staff? Police officers? Is it only outside the public sector that "real life" exists? Because I'm sure you rely on this unreality to actual live your life.

I worked in drug development before teaching, the pressures are different, I don't have to go in at 3am to take blood samples any more, I don't have to get up at 6am on alternate weekends, but there are some long days (parents evenings, etc).

In both careers I've found that new initiatives come down from on high fairly regularly, and that colleagues with the longest service are more likely to resist change. Also that management become fairly removed from reality. I think SLT should do a month with a full timetable once a year!

I also think a lot depends on the school you're in, just like any other workplace. It's quite stark at the moment with some schools doing full timetable online teaching and some doing sweet fa, with most falling somewhere in the middle.

At my current school I find there is a distinct lack of clear forward planning, we've got curriculum changes coming for September and SLT are still navel gazing about it. So muggins and co will no doubt be writing modules over the summer.

Also the joys of mass feedback that is then either ignored or spun and they do what they were originally planning to anyway - I'd rather just be told what is happening and get on with it unless they're actually going to listen - again, true for both careers.

But I wouldn't say I'm a 'better teacher' than those who went into it straight from uni, probably the opposite since they've got 10 years experience on me. I do think it helps to have a bit of diversity of life experience in the team though.

I taught for 10 years and worked in other graduate roles beforehand. I have now spent the best part of a decade working in another professional role. What I will say is:

I don't miss the holidays - being able to take annual leave when you want is priceless.

My non-teaching jobs had/have stressful days and busy periods, but they are generally balanced out by times when things are more routine. In teaching the level of stress never let up.

I worked 7.45 to 6.00 every week day (plus commute) and most of the day every Sunday. I was permanently exhausted and never got it all done. That feeling was soul-destroying.

I don't regret doing it, but I do regret not leaving a bit sooner.

@BeltaneBride

I worked in industry for many years before teaching. I love teaching but don't regret coming to it later. Work in a few state schools doing supply initially but now work full time a lovely indie secondary. With fewer hours now than in previous career, can walk to work and the holidays are a massive bonus. I don't think people who have only ever worked in education realise what a privilege the holiday are. I agree that real life experience in something outside the public sector should be a requirement -but it will never happen in the state sector, sadly.

I've never met a teacher who hasn't realised what a massive perk the holidays are.

I don't know what 'industry' you worked in before teaching but unless it was social work/nursing/ police/ criminal lawyer/prison officer etc then I bet there's more real life in any state school than whatever job it was.

I also don't think teaching in an indie school is anywhere like near the same job as a state school. I'm not saying it's easier, I imagine the parental pressure is huge for example, but it is a completely different job.

new initiatives come down from on high fairly regularly, and that colleagues with the longest service are more likely to resist change
There is a reason for that Rupert, many longer serving colleagues will have seen similar initiatives before and already know what was wrong with them the last time. New initiatives get recycled every 5-10 years or so, it's hard to get excited about one you've already tried!

Oh I know, Mistress. It wasn't an entirely negative judgement, but there is a scale between 'not doing that, we've always done the other thing and it's fine' and 'woo, shiny new thing, let's do it without thinking it through'.

Actually, the 'we've always done x' thing was more prevalent in industry, where there were actual reasons for the changes most of the time.

One of the things that I find tricky in education is that you never really know what works because either loads of things change at once or stuff works for some and not others, and the data (despite being quite extensive) isn't really used properly.

I worked in local journalism/PR/marketing before teaching. I think that being in another profession beforehand gave me an even better insight into just how awful conditions are in teaching.

Broadly speaking, the pay was the same for me (better in PR but the gap closed as I got further into teaching). But in terms of workloads, there was no comparison. I have never experienced the unrelenting exhaustion that teaching creates in any other profession. And I have also never experienced the same levels of contempt from the general public. Being continually bashed and belittled also contributed to my feelings of exhaustion, I feel. I was a secondary English teacher - a role which has, admittedly, one of the highest workloads because of the essay marking - and it was absolutely draining.

I now no longer work in teaching and I earn marginally less but I have regained my sanity and that is priceless. I have huge respect for teachers who continue to work in the profession. There is a reason why so many are choosing to leave and so few ever return.

My take away from being a second career teacher was that only people who've never had another job would put up with the patronising and exploitative way young teachers are treated and the way experienced teachers' opinions and experience on all the shining new transparently unworkable/ contradictory initiatives are quashed.

Experienced staff aren't allowed to say openly that May's initiative which aspiring deputy head Mr Roberts is spearheading directly contradicts February's initiative second in maths and ambitious career ladder climber Mr Smith is leading and duplicates parts of November's all staff government driven new direction whilst making the data gathering deputy head/ aspiring future head Mr Burns insists we're still to do through til July obsolete because it changes the parameters assumed when this specific data gathering initiative was started in September...

Enthusiasm or silence are the only acceptable responses and nobody is ever to suggest not piling initiatives which contradict one another or aren't practical to run concurrently on top of one another.

I found it frustrating having come from a very practical, somewhat cut throat but honest work environment with a very flat structure, to discover the ridiculous politics and busy work and self promotion going on in the staff rooms of large secondary schools. The amount of pointless time consuming work done to make the school look good to Ofsted or the press and to enhance the careers of a small group of mainly male ladder climbers is ridiculous in the context. I didn't go in deluded about behaviour, classroom management, motivation or any of that - I'd taught teenagers before in other settings including 10 months of full time solo classroom teaching abroad - but I was shocked by how much time and frustration was lost to things of no direct benefit to the students/ children.

I do glean from this thread why older long serving teachers are silenced. Apparently we are just jaded old give us who know nothing.

Piggywaspushed

Ahh but we don't have that "can do attitude" that people who have never been there and know little or fuck all have.

And of course as you say we are ignored as been jaded and not the truth which is have "already been on this ride and its come around again"

I worked with two female teachers with 30 years experience each, both of whom had taken time out when their own children were young. They absolutely knew what was what and should have been running the place. Instead they had responsibility points as NQT mentor/ coordinator and in pastoral care (head of year) but only grumbled in private about big picture stuff. The place was run by bully boy careerists who were, given the benefit of hindsight, budget grammar school versions of Boris and Dominic...

I don't even know what give us was a typo for!!

At risk of being crucified, I've always wondered why there aren't specialist managers in teaching. After all, you can be a fabulous teacher but in order to progress and earn more you have to take on e tea responsibilities which aren't always compatible skills.

Our society never values those who do the doing. It's always the strategists.

But to answer your question, my DH went into teaching after 10 years in publishing. It's way way harder, with little financial reward in comparison. Yes, the holidays are good, but really they have the usual 5/6 weeks like everyone else if you add up the hours done on extracurricular stuff and evening and weekend marking.

There are sort if specialist managers with NPQH etc. I do think it matters though that those in charge of telling others staffwhat - and how- to do ought to have been really effective practitioners themselves. They often aren't.

I called them yes men in cheap suits. Promoted despite having no people management skills and bordering on sociopathic personalities.

I do like the idea of budget Boris. We get more budget Gavin which is a worry, as Gavin is already definitely a bit C and A.

TheHoneyBadger promoted to their point of incompetence a colleague used to say, though often they were incomplent all along and shuffled upward on pure boys club ambition and arse licking, perhaps in the hope they'll finally reach a level they're good at/ spend more time in an office.

Our heads of year are now non teachers. They are paid a little more than a TA and have no experience of the classroom.

They give sweets to kids who are infamous for swearing and shouting at teachers and disrupting their class’s learning non stop and slag off teachers with them in some instances. They send angry, I emailed you an hour ago saying it was urgent and you haven’t replied-type messages blissfully unaware that when teaching back to back lessons we can’t be reading and replying to emails. Oh and they see sending an all teaching staff email telling us a child has a problem as having fixed the problem.

I miss proper heads of year and pastoral leadership