Educating at home

[Jbr]

www.guardian.co.uk/parents/story/0,3605,789867,00.html

You've got to read this article, if only to see the names of these children. I wouldn't be sending them to school either with names like that.

Ah, there you are jbr. Fancy answering the points I made to you on the other thread?

'Feeling guilty for staying at home' thread.

JBR - It's not a question of wasting opportunities, some kids just aren't ready to throw themselves in to education at the time that the state says they are. My brother is the perfect example - he was both dyslexic and a handful and my mother was told that he didn't have a hope of achieving A levels. More to the point he didn't seem to have any interest in achieving them either. Just not mature enough to get on with it. However, after bumming around for a year or two, he chose to go back in to education. Having always come across as the daftest member of the family, he is now studying for a PHD in marine biology, has travelled extensively doing marvellous conservation work and makes my sisters and I look positively thick. That he's got to this position a few years later than he might have is neither here nor there. The important thing is that he's got there.

Willow2 that's such an inspiring story. I have a feeling my oldest son my be a slow starter, too.

I agree with jbr that there is (some) inequality of opportunity - entering higher education is easier if you have some money behind you - the idea of leaving college with thousands of pounds worth of debt must be daunting to lots of 18 year olds.

Looking at my own experience, I can't blame children and their parents for not making the most of every second of schooling, though. Is that what you're getting at? I've tried, I can tell you. My son goes to school every day, we give him pep talks, he does his homework, he messes around when he can get away with it. He is just not the sort of person right now who thinks school is the be all and end all. Short of performing brain surgery on him, I don't see how I can change his personality.

JBR, I went to college at 14 because, suffering from depression, I was unable to cope with the pressure of school. And I don't mean in the academic sense, (although I'd missed a term of school aged 7, and was never given the support to catch up, so there was a big gap in my knowledge which made subjects such as maths (which was a weak subject for me anyway) even harder) although there was that as well. I started off doing just one GCSE course the first year, then 2 the next. I then went on to start a media studies course (which consisted of two A'levels and a couple of other qualifications) in an attempt to catch up with what my peer group were doing then. I dropped out of that course, messed around doing very little for a year and then started doing 3 more A'levels the next year. That's were I met DS's Dad, got pregnant and ended up only completing one of the A'levels. Since then I have done another A'level and I'm hoping to do something else this year. So I have a handful of qualifications, in unusual subjects, not the 10 GCSE's and 3 or 4 A'levels I could have. But I'm still trying.

Back to the real subject, I want to ask a question, particularly of those who have expressed opinions against home-ed, but I would be interested in any replies....

What is the purpose of education?

So we can have discussions like this

hmmm.. but do we need to be educated to discuss big issues? That needs some thought and am in a rush so can't add more now.

Definitely need to be able to read (commments), write (add a message) and add up (is that the time?)

re commments: don't need to be able to spell properly, do we, brain...

Hi Anais, My 2 oldest children attend a private christian school but I do know many parents who homeschool their children because they can not afford the private school. They have the same curriculum just at home. The reason why these certain inviduals I know home ed is because they want a lot of their learning to be based on Godly principles. Example, there reading books talk about God. Of course they have to read other types of books as well. The curriculum is bought through a religious company. I also know there is the public school home ed curriculum not based on any religious material. Besides the fact why the people I know home ed I think most people do just so their children do not have to attend the public school system. Honestly I dont know if your in America and how the schools are in other countries (probally much better) but their not that great here (in most places) on the inside. To much violence and horrible things going on. My dd is only 9 and hated the public schools here. Shes told me the kids cuss, fight, and do all sorts of bad things. And this is just elementary. I know a parent from my church whos 15 yr old ask to enroll in our church school. They had just moved to the area and she told her mom you would never want to know what goes on in this school. I think parents just want to give them the best education they know how and feel is best while their young. I dont know anyone who does it at home when in high school though. Most end up putting them in a private school by then.

anais
I think the purpose of education is to be taught how to learn.

Droile, I am not here every second of the day to answer every damn remark.

As for that thread, I will not go along with the "children need their mother physically there". The role of Mum and Dad are not inherently different, except for breast feeding, though I'm sure if my man could have he would have.

)

Tiger, I agree with University, it's going back to the old system where you can't even get a grant.

When I was there I had £26 a week. Kids now don't even have that.

I did take a loan out for some repairs round our place. I haven't paid it back because I've never earned enough!

It's a pretty ridiculous system.

Anais, I assumed they took you because you were advanced. We do have a couple of clever kids near to me who went at 11.

That's another argument though. What provisions are made for gifted children?!

Sometimes the state can't do anything with/for them either.

Anais, re; what is the purpose of education?
I was told when doing my PGCE that the word 'educate' stems from the latin 'ducere' meaning to lead, or bring out. A quick look at the dictionary also includes 'to impart knowledge', 'to improve or develop' and 'to train for some particular purpose or occupation'.
Most of these, with the exception of the last, could be done in either a home or school environment.

And that latter bit is very important.

I notice all the hullabloo about boys doing 1% less well than girls in their GCSEs. When girls were trailing behind, nobody seemed to know or care.

It's as if whether a girl does well at school or gets a decent job doesn't matter to the authorities or the media, presumably because the press etc think we are all going to pack it in anyway.

gawd, she's off again.

Threeangels, I am in the UK. I know nothing about the schools in the US so I cannot compare, but certainly the schools around me are not the sort of places I would want to send my children 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. The children leaving them are described as "well below average" in most subjects and the behaviour of the kids doesn't even bear thinking about

I know some people working from set curriculums at home but I prefer the idea of working without. I just feel it leaves the way open to more opportunities which may arise on an everyday basis.

I think you made an important point about values. I am not religious, but I have strong beliefs and values (environmental, particularly) which I don't feel are given enough priority in school.

An added point is that both my children are showing signs of being very bright, and I don't feel that enough provision is made for any other than 'average' students (who are they?). The more gifted students are bored, the less able, frustrated. I know attempts are made to remedy the situation, but I don't feel its enough. Educating at home leaves the way open for their needs to be catered to, rather than skirted around.

My reasons for posting the question about the purpose of education, was just what you said Bettys. Education is not something that can only happen in schools. We are learning from the day we are born. Why, suddenly, at the age of 4-5 do we suddenly feel we are not qualified to educate our own children? We have helped them learn to eat, walk, speak, etc. Children learn naturally, what is not natural is the situation we put them in within a school. I have heard the reasoning, "kids are lazy, they won't learn if they don't have to" but what are they doing every moment of every day? Everything they do, as small children, are learning experiences. They can learn from the most mundane experiences.

Jbr, you don't seem to have acknowledged that the gender of my remaining living parent didn't matter. I missed one of them and you can't argue with a child's emotions. Those were mine. If you would just reply to say you understood, I wouldn't need to keep prodding. Rude, IMO, to ask me where my dad was and when I explained to you that he had died when I was little, to simply not reply.
If you don't want to engage with a reply, then don't ask the question in the first place.

You were posting on other threads, so I knew you were around.
Oh damn! I've made another damn remark.

I know exactly what you mean by your children being bright and so bored. Public schools curriculum is set so below standards for the children who (unfortanatly) are not as bright as others. I guess if the curriculum was more on the challenging side for smarter children then the kids not as smart would be failing which would cause all sorts of problems for the teachers. This is not to sound like critsism though. My kids school is about 2 years ahead of the public system (very challenging) which I beleive most private christian schools are. When my ds attended public school for 2 years a while back he was breezing through the work everyday. I felt helpless. He is still great in school but has more challenging work.

Ah Batters, ignore was the word I was searching for in that last post. See, My brian really has gone .

anais, all schools do not fail to enthuse the brighter children.

I know you picked me up when I said I would send my children to any school (almost!!!!) but I was - probably - exaggerating a bit.

Granted my kids have been lucky but the county school they have all been to has educated them to a very high standard. They are all bright kids, have all (so far) gone on to the local grammar school, the 2 eldest got excellent GCSEs and the eldest excellent A levels and they have never ever been bored at school. State education is not all bad news.

I honestly believe I could not have done nearly as much for them as their primary and secondary schools have.

Eek, I almost feel I daren't add anything to this.. But I will ! Dh went to a grammar (11+ days & well before my time !) Family circs were dreadful and I'm not prepared to go into details but meant he left at 16. Skilled manual jobs + trade union positions followed and eventually he jacked in his job to go to college. To cut a long story (and a huge amount of achievement) short he graduated with a first in a very sort-after subject but found many employers wouldn't consider him as a new grad because of his age - wrongly assuming he would want more money than younger people.

I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make, except that it's impossible to pigeon-hole people be they male or female, young or old, I just know that by the time dh found his niche (at around 28)he was determined to make the most of his chances and did.

Right, two things I forgot to say (can you believe I've been lying awake worrying about this stuff???)

Cam, "I think the purpose of education is to be taught how to learn." Why do you feel we need to be taught how to learn? As I've said below, we are learning from the day we are born, it's an in-built mechanism, and IMO not something you can be taught.

JBR, You picked up on Bettys comment that part of education was "to train for some particular purpose or occupation". She said that this was something you couldn't learn in a home environment and you commented that it was important. Of course I agree, but this is something you don't learn in school either. This is something which you do either in college/university or "on the job" and both these opportunities are available to HE children. I feel HE children have every opportunity available to them as school children (arguably more) but a far greater flexibility in using those opportunities.