Educating at home

[Jbr]

www.guardian.co.uk/parents/story/0,3605,789867,00.html

You've got to read this article, if only to see the names of these children. I wouldn't be sending them to school either with names like that.

Well, it's obviously good for some people and good for them!

Don't you think kids miss out on seeing the horrors and thrills of school first hand though? And learning to cope with that? I think that the big danger of home schooling is that kids just don't get a sense of the variety- good and bad- of people and situations out there. It's almost worse if they have very involved, good, interesting parents because they may never learn to cope with other situations (ie the indifference, shittiness, boredom that is as much a part of everyday life as the good bits) Subjecting your children to your world view 24/7 for the bulk of their childhood is not ideal, IMO.

message withdrawn

message withdrawn

I have a childhood friend in the usa who homeschools her 4 (!) children. She's a braver woman than I. Like janh, I wouldn't give up the childcare for anything (except maybe www looking after them)...but kidding aside. I think like any type of upbringing, homeschooling can work for some and not for others. I personally am choosing to send my son to the best school possible (though my criteria for measuring "best" are not solely based on academics) and supplement his school experience with help and encouragement at home with both academic and social issues like getting on with other people from different backgrounds and cultures. I personally think that the latter is very important and can be missing from not only a home education, but from a traditional middle/upper class private school education (and for that matter from a working class state education). I was the first professional woman my (council estate) stepkids had ever met besides their school teachers. And I am constantly amazed at how many highly educated people I come across who have never had a black friend and have no idea of the concept of not having enough money to pay for the basics.

ps. jbr, sorry but those names don't sound any stranger to me than my own children's names in a non-italian setting. And I selected their names for just that reason as I like having names that differ to the norm.

I've just started working as a teaching assistant at my son's school, in the reception class. (He's in yr 2).
I've been amazed at how much time is spent just teaching the 'crowd control' aspects, as anais said. There is so much lining up and waiting for everyone to be ready before anything actually happens! I am acutely aware of this as the child I am supporting is autistic, and waiting is very difficult for her.
On the plus side, I've been really impressed at the way the class teacher and assistants are so respectful of and interested in each child, within the constraints of the group setting. They really try to explain things so that the children know what's happening, and why things are done a certain way. It's been very heartening to witness.

I think some people misunderstand some aspects of home educating - some comments on here have mentioned children being cocooned from bad situations or people, and not experiencing the 'real' world - do these people assume that home educated children literally stay at home all the time, and only learn from their parents? A little research or talking to home educating families would show them that in fact, these children mix with a wide variety of people on a daily basis, and most take part in at least one group or class a week, usually more, and so are learning how to work in groups and how to get on with all kinds of people, but without the negative aspects of peer pressure and bullying that are rife in schools. How anyone can think experience of bullying or abuse can be good for their child is beyond me.

I'm a teacher and I would home educate rather than send my children to a subtandard school or allow them to face abusive situations. I think one of the things about home education is you have to be able to afford to do it - if you both need to work to pay the mortgage then the free childcare aspect is going to be really important, and I don't blame anyone who sees it that way.
I'm lucky in that our local schools, both primary and secondary, are superb and being rural, are not oversubscribed, with nice small classes, so its not really an issue for us.

Just going back to the article a minute. I take it that Hero and Tybalt are still not much older than 3 and 2. In that case, IM veryhumble O, they are not being home educated strictly speaking - they are being cared for at home, in a stimulating and loving way by their mum and dad. So I can't see how the writer can be a true advocate of home education yet. Her children aren't of school age. I see she intends to write about their progress so I guess we'll see.

From where I stand - a position of great ignorance and a little cynicism - I think HE must get harder as children get older. The demands of my 8 year old - social, academic - would be really hard for me to meet at home, even if I had accesss to the best computer programmes and books available. And who funds all this HE paraphalia, not to mention the trips to the ballet, the sports coach and the loss of my earnings? At least state education is mostly free.

Sorry won't knock HE, and see it as a great choice some, but they are the minority IMO.

I was home educated for 6 months at 11 before joyfully being sent to school. It was utterly joyless and lonely, with no sense of fun, although my parents/tutors did try and make it as interesting as possible.

When I finally got to secondary school I was massively unpopular for a while as I was seen as a bit weird, but thankfully managed to shake of that tag and ended up loving my school years.

School IS boring in parts and other children can be crap, but thats part of life, surely?

Enid and others
Doesn't school reflect life only because we allow it to?
I know there will always be jobs that need doing that many ppl will refuse - the classic comment of if everyone went to university who would collect the bins, sweep the streets...
But if enough ppl refuse to accept what is going on in schools - that crowd control is so important, bullying is rife, many children learn little, and if that means some ppl home educating, some flexi-schooling and others using private schools, perhaps the system will be forced to change? While still providing the child care that yes, many of us need.
And my own position - my dd is 2 1/2 and in a private nursery 4 days a week. I haven't yet decided what I'll be doing for her education, but home education is a definite option.

message withdrawn

I agree with what Fionamc said about children that are homeschooled still can attend things outside the home education. This example may be a little different because it is refering to private school but I know that in my kids school the kids that are educated at home (following the same curriculim) participate in all the school sports, feild trips and school meetings. In one way that type of education is good if the school works with parents on the home schooling. I'm not really sure if you can still participate if you are in the public system though.

Enid, may I ask why you were HE'd?

I stopped going to school at age 11 and never went back. I was effectively home educated by a home tutor provided by the education authority. I too was bored out of my mind, but I was suffering from depression and so didn't go out much. I started going to college aged 14 and from there things got a little easier as I was getting out and interacting with the world a bit more.

This won't be the situation for my children. Home education doesn't mean sitting at home. We can be out doing different cativities every day if we choose. Attending 'after-school' type clubs. Not being tired after a long school day, they will be able to enjoy these with energy and enthusiasm. There is also the opportunity to very much follow their interests and enthusiasm, and be sponteneous about it, which you can't do so much with the confines of school hours.

To me, the biggest advantage to HE is the opportunity for my children to learn about things that interest them, as much as they want when they want. They don't have to do this project because that's whats been planned, and go on doing it after their interest has waned, or stop and move onto the next thing before they've finished. I feel this presents a far better opportunity for learning, as children will learn better when they are interested in the subject in hand. Just like adults doing further education, or adult education classes. Learning becomes a pleasure, an enjoyable journey, rather than a resented chore. This opens for them the doors on lifelong learning. Not just sticking at it to get qualifications and get out as quickly as possible.

I was HE'd because I was allocated the nearest school in our catchment area - a mixed comprehensive with a very bad (at the time) reputation. My parents wanted me to go to an all-girls ex-grammar that was outside our catchment area. It was during the 70's when Shirley Williams et al were running a high-profile campaign to put 'gifted' children into poor-performing schools. My parents campaigned tirelessly and I appeared in the paper and had to go and see Shirley Williams etc. They HE'd me to make a point.

I couldn't have cared less, I just wanted to go to school, not sit upstairs with an out-of-date textbook.

Anyway, I finally got a place at an all-girls ex-grammar, miles away from home. This pleased my parents immensely. I was introduced to my classmates thus 'This is X, she will be coming here because her parents want her to learn Latin'. As you can imagine, this went down like a lead balloon and it took me a long time to live it down

I just feel that sometimes this is an extension of the "children need their mother" thing sometimes. I was reading a similar piece once - can't remember who wrote it I'm afraid - and this woman was going on about how she thinks it is terrible that the state "takes our children away from us" and from that she went into a rant about nursery for 2 year olds etc etc. Of course the role of Dad wasn't mentioned, as usual...

I was bullied at every school I attended and not just by the usual bullies who were nasty to everyone. I was bullied by the majority at every school - usually because I was reading and that was seen as "sucking up".

I still advocate going to school though for lots of reasons.

Anais, going to college at 14?

Wow!

I was told at 11 I would go to University, which I did but fell behind due to depression. I ended up going about 2 or 3 years after everyone else in my year, who went when they were 18.

This brings me to another subject about people who waste time.

But that's something for another thread I think!

Sorry, I keep having after thoughts.

I think discipline is an important part of school. By which I mean using your time, not the "right and wrong" kind of discipline. I don't see why some child should be able to do maths or whatever, whenever they fancy.

I also think "adult education" is a euphemism for "I couldn't be bothered" and it's nearly always women who take their qualifications late I've noticed.

I sometimes think we haven't moved on at all, especially with some many unemployed women, who choose to be unemployed and then faff about deciding they want a degree!

I really don't fit in round here. My politics seem to be a bit too much to the left for some people.

Jbr - how does trashing Adult ed make your politics left wing?

Adult ed is not about the otherwise idle swanning off to university at tax-payers' expense, it's generally about offering opportunities to people who were failed by the school system in some way, or who need a change in direction. At the most basic level, it is literacy classes or how-to-use-a-computer (which I used to teach - very hard to get a job nowadays without knowing what a mouse is). It is also about giving some pride back to people who thought they were stupid (usually because of bad experiences in school).

If your point was that you have no respect for people who study for a degree late, then why not? It is a great acheivement at any time but especially when you have other commitments. Also haven't seen stats, but I remember that a far larger proportion of mature students at university (as opposed to the 18 year olds) were from working class backgrounds.

General adult ed is a great thing and is massively underfunded (compared to state funding for universities, although I don't particularly think that is too high). Sadly the school system will not be able to help all kids for the forseeable future, and adult ed can be their only hope. However (and back to the subject), kids with responsible parents who think education is a good thing don't tend to be the ones who are failed by the system.

Taxpayers expense??
I'm doing a postgrad MA in Journalism while being a SAHM and its costing me over six thousand in fees plus childcare for my college days. Adult education is great for me but I'm a burden on none but DH!

wow jbr that's quite a blanket dismissal of an awful lot of people. My dh is going back to school in jan at the age of 41 to do an access course in business with the hope of going on to university. I, not the tax payer am going to pay for this. And he didn't get an education as a child not because he couldn't be bothered, but because at 11 he wasn't lucky enough to be getting told he would be going to university but rather he was getting hospitalized on a regular basis because his father was beating the c**p out of him and his mother. He finally went into care a year later.

ps I went to normal state schools for most of my education and always had my nose in a book and was never bullied. Is it possible that there is more than one right way to be educated?

JBR, Because of the reasons I've mentioned already I didn't complete my schooling. Not because I couldn't be bothered, but because I was suffering from depression, as diagnosed by a number of dr's and paediatricians. From age 14 when I started to go to college until now I have been trying to build some kind of education and have scraped together a few qualifications, which I hope to continue adding to.

I also hope that I will be able to go to university, when I've finished being a SAHM and educating my kids. Is that wasting my time?

As for your comment..."I don't see why some child should be able to do maths or whatever, whenever they fancy" I don't get your reasoning. Why not? Is it the old "It never did me any harm.." mentality? If I can find a way of making learning an easier, more pleasant experience for my children, then why the hell shouldn't I? Learning, and knowledge is a wonderful thing. A desire to learn and absorb information is natural in children, you only need to watch a toddler for a few minutes to realise that. All too often that desire is surpressed by school and learning becomes a chore and a misery. I don't want that to happen to my kids.

Is it possible, jbr, that you were bullied not because of having your nose in a book but because of the chip on your shoulder? And that it is not your left wing politics that are the problem (seem to have noticed a few others like that) but your aggresive way of expressing yourself?

Isn't being a troll wonderful?