How does a Tutor know what the child is supposed to know, and why don't I?

[Giuliettatoday]

Hi there,

please forgive my stupid question, but how does a private tutor know what a child is supposed to know, where the problems are etc.?

We keep forever talking to the teachers to find out what they are actually doing at school, but it remains very vague.

Ds1 is in yr 4, ds2 in yr 2, both at a good, but not extremely good state primary school.

For example, we know they have to know times tables at some point, but never know when there are any assessments, or when precisely they should know which times table.

We get one A4 information sheet per term, and there is just a brief column per subject, not detailed at all.

However, our children, particularly the one with SEN (but no statement) struggle/s at school.

We would like to support them, but just don't know how.

At the moment they're doing Kumon and it helps them practising the basics, such as +, - and x (so far), but as it doesn't really tie in with what they're doing at school, I'd rather move them to a tutor in the long run.

It's not for getting them into certain state or private schools, particularly not for the SEN child, just helping them not falling behind even more.

But I wonder what a tutor would do to get the information from school. Or are they ex-school teachers and know exactly what is done at what point?

I'm a teacher myself but trained in the German system and for secondary schools, so it doesn't help much.

In Germany you are pretty well informed as a parent through the textbooks, daily homework and the paperwork children bring home every single day and announced tests, even in primary school.
I'm not saying their system is better overall, I just don't like and am not used to being that uninformed and left in a dark, when I actively want to support my children.

I feel that I'm dropping them off and picking them up and that's it, apart from practising reading.

The teachers seem very helpful when we talk to them, but nothing ever happens, i.e. we never get more detailed information, even the reports don't tell you much. It sounds all very nice, but if you read between the lines it's a different story.

It feels very stupid to pay lots of money for a tutor when I'm a teacher myself, but I don't know where to start.

Are you in England? There's a national curriculum in England, is there not? with regular testing?

I'd expect a tutor to be aware of this.

I am aware of the National Curriculum (am in the UK) but still don't know WHEN they're doing what. I mean on a day to day basis.

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Giuletta, the English system is much more geared to meeting the needs of the individual child, so there isn't a rigid "Klassenziel" the way you would get in Germany. In most schools there will be some form of ability grouping, so that not all children will be getting the same work anyway, so there is no precise time at which they should eg. know a particular times table.

On the upside, this can mean that a child can move much more swiftly through work he/she finds easy, or conversely can be supported in work they find harder without feeling as if they've failed. On the downside, it can sometimes mean that children mosey along doing work that is much too easy for them without anyone really noticing or caring.

Wrt tutors, it depends what you're after. If you want your child to be prepared for entry to a specific type of selective secondary school, or if you want them to stay in the state system but make sure that they are achieving to the level of their ability so as to be in a position to compete with privately-educated pupils, then you want a tutor who is familiar with that system. Typically most tutors of this type will be retired teachers from private prep schools with many years experience of getting bright kids to perform at the highest level of which they are capable. They will give your child a range of tasks until they start getting a feel for his/her strengths and weaknesses, and help them to focus on areas that need development.

Even then the tutor may not give you massively detailed feedback -- you're paying for their expertise and experience, rather than for them to give you a blow-by-blow account of your child's academic profile.

There are obviously less experienced and less-qualified tutors as well, but to be safe you'd be better off going through an agency like Gabbitas, or by word of mouth through other parents whose opinions you trust.

ahh guiletta, I could have written your post. I feel equally clueless as to what they're actually doing and get virtually zero information, particularly on what goes on in numeracy.

I grew up in Germany and my mum is a Schulraetin over there so this lack of information doesn't really tie in with my expectations, either.

Sorry, don't know the answer but just wanted to tell you that I share your frustration!

"Even then the tutor may not give you massively detailed feedback -- you're paying for their expertise and experience, rather than for them to give you a blow-by-blow account of your child's academic profile."

Goodness me, so I'd be paying for something but not be entitled to know what I was paying for or if it was effective?

if your aim is to support your children which it sounds like it is then I second the talking to school. any tutor you use will be much more effective if working in conjunction with school. i also know that some schools are unhappy with tutoring if they feel it undermines the methods/messages they are teaching so you are much better off having the school/tutor and you working in partnership to support your child.

Agree with the pooey fish. Go in and have a meeting with their teachers. They might think you are a bit of a pain but they'll spare you half an hour.

There are key stages in the UK system and I think this information is more widely available.

Why do you think they are falling behind? What makes you think that?

You really shoudl arrange to meet the teacher and ask what targets your dc are aiming for.

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Well no, pointydog, a good tutor should be giving you feedback. But I wouldn't be after a blow-by-blow account of each week's targets, anymore than I would expect that from the school. If I wanted that level of control, I'd home-educate.

National Curriculum online
Also, have a look around this site, it might have some of what you are looking for.
www.standards.dfes.gov.uk
eg.
y4 maths
Select whatever you want to look at to get plans for each year within the term. Have a look around this site, it might have some of what you are looking for.

Have a look at NC standards Site cumbersome to use but which breaks down the main subjects by year/term. You can order copies of the manuals. Can you find out what schemes your school follows ie ours uses Heinemann Maths.

ok frogs, I getcha

I don't get much out of my kids about what they're doing at school, unless it's something spectacular (for them) such as a fireman visiting or children bringing in their pets. Certainly not what they've done in maths, their mind goes blank after school and they can't/won't/don't want to remember. Arggh. And the times tables are just an example, of course I'd also like to know what they're doing otherwise, to give just another example, not just "the Egyptians", but what about the Egyptians, what are they supposed to find out, to know about them etc. There are tons of books available, it's endless, but what is required after all? (Just as another example, this goes for the other subjects as well).

I shall have to study the National Curriculum in more detail, I think...

Both my children get extra support for various problems, particularly ds1, so the problems are apparently there, otherwise they wouldn't do it, particularly as none of them has a statement. So I'm not complaining about the teachers, they are always there for talks, but in the end I still don't know what's going on. They're simply too busy to hand out details all the time. Sometimes they do and then it's very effective (such as extra worksheets for dc), as they even report back to us. But they have too much to do to do it all the time, I'm already feeling guilty sometimes...

geekgirl, it's funny, in real life it's also always the German mums who complain about the lack of information, I think we are trapped in our own thinking and way our school system worked and still works, the English ones are used to it and don't mind. However, they're secretly hiring tutors or sending their kids to Kumon as well, and some are very keen about certain schools and tests which makes me think...

frogs: I know the system is different, but from the SATs (ok they're controversial as well, I know), you can see if a child is working below, above or according to the level expected. And there are things like reading ages (and similar 'ages' for other subjects), and if my child is way below in almost every area, I think I'm not over anxious (@icod). In a way I think the English system is better aimed at the individual pupil, it's rather the lack of information.

It's not about grammar schools/academic private schools, as they will probably be way out of reach, both academically (for dc) and financially (for us) but as frogs put it so well, wanting them to stay in the state system but make sure that they are achieving to the level of their ability. I will look into Gabbitas tutors, thanks for the advice.

icod: My kids get lots of breaks, far more than I did at that age, but I believe 10-15 mins here or there, be it talking about a certain subject, looking at a particular book or some extra work can be very beneficial, if it's the right kind of stuff, reinforcing what they're just doing at school, which is why I think about taking them out of Kumon in the long run (although it takes ds2 only approx. 10mins a day), but only once I've found a suitable alternative. I certainly don't want them to drift along until the bad suprise comes at secondary school.

If your children are in Yr 4 and Yr 2 they should know some of their targets. Our school has always been upfront with pupils and parents - so for example in the back of the homework book is stapled a piece of paper setting out some of that child's targets for maths and English for that term. So that might mean focusing on the 7, 8 and 9 times tables, or perhaps using more adjectives in descriptive work.

They also have tracker books, where once a term they all do a set task in maths, English and science. These are graded according to National Curriculum levels and over time provide a overview of the child's progress. Children see these marks and are given targets to be 'working towards'.

Homework books also give a good indication of what a child is doing, because usually the homework is reinforcing stuff done in class. So if my child brings home a maths worksheet on fractions, a list of times tables to be learnt that week and a piece of work focusing on writing diary entries, I know that that's the sort of thing my child's class/and or ability group have been doing recently. How easily my child does the homework, and the comments the teachers write on marking it, give me a glimpse into any strengths or possible areas of weakness.

Talk to the teachers though, it'll set your mind at rest.

Portonovo, the system your school uses sounds great. I'd love to have that, it's the sort of information I'd like from school, something to focus on and some clear targets, but we just don't get this information. I will ask the teacher today if they could do something similar.

again, portonovo: 'If your children are in Yr 4 and Yr 2 they should know some of their targets.'
They don't have a clue, that's the problem, and they tell me hardly anything about school, certainly not what they do in Maths, English or Science.

GO see the teacher.
Have a look at the standards website. Lists all of the objectives that teachers have to set for pupils in English and maths

If yo google for National Curriculum you get to the government site. They list targets for children in all the core subjects for KS1, 2, 3 and 4

If youwant to know what they are soing at KS4 you can also google the examimation boards and find the curriculum targets.

At A level you can do the same