Lunchbox wars

[hurricane]

Since dd1 has gone into year 1 she has been coming back from school with her lunchbox full of bread crusts, apple cores and mostly empty but slightly leaking drinks cartons. When I asked her why she wasn't putting her rubbish in the bin she explained that the teachers make them bring it home so it won't make the classroom smell. I put a note in her homework book to ask the teacher to let her throw away her empty drinks containers as they were leaking and the teacher has said that they tell the children to empty any drink before putting the carton back in their lunch box so once again dd brought home a sticky carton, apple core etc.

My question is is it unreasonable to expect children to be allowed to throw rubbish away so that their poor mums and dads aren't faced with a load of stinky food and drink when they open thier lunch boxes? And if not what should I do now?

rubbish collection from schools is classed as business waste and is charged, rubbish from homes is not charged (over and above concil tax charges). That will also be a consideration for schools.
Also, just becasue you pack the lunchbox, doesn't mean the child will actually eat any of the contents .

I agree that just because you put food in a lunch box doesn't mean that it will be eaten. I have seen children take one bite of sandwich and a mouthful of drink and then refuse to eat any more because they want to go out to play - not that your dc would do this but it has to be the same for all. They are not allowed to throw the rubbish away so that parents can see what is and isn't being eaten. It is not realistic to expect a teacher to tell parents whether their child prefers tuna or cheese sandwiches.
If you don't like the mess then why not put a small, disposable bag in their lunch bag and ask your dc to put their rubbish in there? Then you can just throw the bag away - you could even do it as soon as you pick your child up so that it doesn't fill up your own bin.

My children were well trained to put their finished yoghurt pots into their finished sandwich bag, so that it didn't go all over the lunch bag. Think I probably threatened to ban deserts if they didn't do it.

Also put lunch bag in the washing machine, it comes up lovely.

This is all a bit of a storm in a lunchbox isn't it?

If parents are really finding it so unpleasant or onerous to empty and clean a lunchbox, they just need to get their children to put all half-eaten stuff and wrappers, empty yoghurt pots etc inside either a rigid plastic container that can be emptied out and washed easily, or a disposable plastic bag that parents can just dump in the bin. I've been making 3-4 lunches a day for many years now and never found it a problem. Even yoghurt is a breeze - I decant either home-made or bought yoghurt into one of those rigid plastic pots with snap-shut sides (lock & lock I think they are called) - even very young children can close those properly so the mess or remains are contained.

Children not eating is a real problem. At our playgroup the only way for some parents to see just how much their children are not eating, or in some cases how much they really dislike the food their parents are giving them, is to send that food home every time. One parent sent her child into playgroup with a lunchable thingy every single day and her child really did not like them and left them every time. If we'd just thrown it away and said ' X didn't eat much/any of her lunch' I don't think the message would have got through in the same way.

It might be feasible in a small setting like a playgroup for a member of staff to have a quick word with a parent about their child not eating much, but this is not practical in a school situation - our school has over 300 pupils, most of whom take packed lunches. Making children take their rubbish home is a an easy, effective way of parents seeing just what is eaten.

I also think it is important that parents take responsibility for their rubbish - some send in mountains of wrappings etc that have to be thrown out, so it jolly well should be their responsibility to dispose of it themselves. I did like the idea on another thread where a poster's school rewarded children for taking in 'nude food', i.e. food without wrappings that had to be thrown away.

I would not like my children's school to end up spending part of their budget on the extra waste disposal from packed lunches. As someone else has pointed out, it is business waste, for which they have to pay.

Considering this country is in the middle of an OBESITY epidemic and I'm not seeing too many UNDER-NOURISHED children in the playground I do see this parental anxiety over what their kids are or are not eating to be counter-productive to say the least. I KNOW my kids eat well because I see them eat their evening meals, holiday meals and weekend meals. I can also SEE that they eat healthily because they are full of energy, not over-weight and very active. I certainly don't feel the need to trawl through their detritus and find this idea really quite peculiar. If you want to know whether your kids prefer tuna or cheese or whether they've eaten their dinner how about ASKING them??

I also do wonder why people are putting up so many obstacles to dealing with rubbish in a more convenient and environmentally friendly way. If Bettyspag's school can raise awareness about waste, have a recycling scheme and a compost heap it's not impossible is it? And highly desirable I would have thought.

our local infants school does have a compost pot etc but it's for fruit-time waste, and waste from the kitchens. The dinnerladies can't sort out compostabl;e rubbish from non-compostable. and the kids will just chuck the leftover in the nearest bin. I think most schools will prefer to send the rubbish home. It's not hard to ask DC to put the leftovers in a plastic box inside the lunchbox.
BTW in this obesity epidemic, my 3 boys are all like rashers of bacon. And they will happily eat 3 bags of crisps in one go, or entire packets of biscuits, and I just make sure they eat balanced meals as well.

Actually, many children in this country are malnourished. You just can't always tell that by looking round the playground. You might feel it's reasonable to ask what your children like to eat, but many parents unfortunately don't share this common-sense approach. And children aren't always 100% truthful - they might well tell mum they ate all their lunch when in fact they picked at the sandwich, threw all the apple away and just ate the chocolate bar and the crisps, chucking everything else straight into the bin. That might not happen with your children, it doesn't with mine, but it goes on a lot. At least if the barely-touched yoghurt pot comes home every day for a couple of weeks, the parent might question whether their child will ever actually eat yoghurt or whether they could send it in a less messy container.

The most convenient, environmentally-friendly way of dealing with rubbish IS for children to take it home. Hopefully parents might think twice about sending in so much potential waste in the first place. I really don't see why schools should have to deal with it.

But really, I just keep coming back to the same point - why is it such a big deal? In 11 years of making packed lunches for children it's never been a problem for me - shake out the few crumbs or whatever, wash up the little plastic containers, wash up lunch box, job done. My children virtually never leave any food, but if they do it comes home inside a sealed container so no problem with smells or leaks. When they bring it home any such food goes straight onto the compost heap or into the digester, I don't even have to touch it. So again, no problem.

i really enjoy having to deal with assorted lunchbox rubbish - particularly after it has sat in my sons lunchboxes for 6 hours before i get home to clear it out.

I'm amazed that there are loads of children who can tidy their own lunchboxes, and put all rubbish into a plastic bag etc. mine are doing well if they remember to bring home their reusable drinks bottles!

also, given that children cant dispose of rubbish, do the staff take their own lunch wrappers home, or is that different as they are adults?!

Our staff bring food in reuseable containers

I find the OP v wierd - she is yr 1, why isn't she clearing out her own lunchbox when you get home?

as a parant who has a child who will not eat anything and goes mad for a food and will eat only that but suddenly decides that she doea not like that food (e.g fish fingers whih i hate her eating have replaced panckes and strawberries this week as all she will eat) i like that if takes a lunch box to school when she goes full time i will still know how much she is eating.

luch time teachers have too many kids to look after to watch what my daughter or isnt eating! as another poster mentioned yes most kids eat well and some even over eat but kids not eating is just as much of a problem! my daughter sees a specialsit every 6 months for this reason

I go bakc to my point that it has to be the same for everyone. Just because your dc eat well, exercise, tell you what they have/haven't eaten, doesn't mean that everyone's children do. I really don't see the problem in throwing the leftovers/rubbish away at home.

The argument about teachers and other staff falls down on several points but is covered by the fact that they are staff and not children and therefore afford different rights. Would you expect staff to go out to play, do SATs, wear school uniform, only attend 190 days ...?

I really can't understand why this is a big deal. Just pack up different lunches with no left overs. Yogurts are messy, so don't include them, or put them in snap lock pots. Use a different drink bottle, or a smaller one so the drink gets finished up. Tell your dd that she should eat her crusts, and avoid apples/bananas. My dd has a plasticated suitcase type luchbox with a strap, so avoiding dropping type accidents, and it has a plastic pot inside it for squishy stuff. ds eats everything so long as I let him know the consequences of not doing so (probably why at present he is eating school dinners). I am a working aprent and it's the half an hour of making the packed lunches that's the hassle, not the 5mins or less opening them over the bin for bits and giving them a wipe down.

I don't see a problem with clearing my dd's lunchbox out. The teachers/ta's/dining room staff have enough to do, why should they supervise the throwing away of all the rubbish from lunch boxes? I just open it, throw all the rubbish away/recycle and wash containers for next day.

poor mum, clearing out a lunch box.

But, what if the bins get filled up? Kicked over? How often would Refuse Collection take place? Would all these bins full of food waste become a health and safety hazard? Could it result in ant invasion? Wasps circumnavigating the bins? Rats?

Maybe it is better for the children if the waste is contained inside their lunchboxes till home time?

Get a proper drinks bottle instead of cartons. Problem solved.

Oh God, it's a wonder anything gets changed in this country if so many people are so willing to put trivial obstacles in the way of sensible ideas.

I wonder exactly how the kind of parent who sends their kid to school with chocolate and crisps and then gets surprised when the yoghurt pot comes hom in the lunch box will really benefit from trawling through their child's detritus. In fact, I wonder how some of you think that parents who are stressing so much about what their child is eating for lunch (when they have packed the lunch themself and presumably are responsible for preparing and supervising the child's other means) that they feel the need to inspect their child's remains would benefit from this procedure as opposed to other more generally accepted healthy eating advice.

Some of you may enjoy clearing through lunchboxes. I don't and I don't think it's necessary. Personally I've got better things to do with my time. DP and I also take packed lunches to school but don't have to bring home our own apple cores etc so I don't see why my children do.

I also remind you that if it's possible to have recycling, composting and awareness raiing at Bettyspag's school then it can't be impossible at other schools can it?

I also wonder how some of you can suggest I ban yoghurts, apples and bananas from my kids' lunchboxes and then say that their not being allowed to throw their rubbish away after lunch a) creates no inconvenience for me and b) does not restrict their diet in any way. It's a very sad world if our first priority for our choice of what our kids eat for lunch is what causes the least mess for us to clear up later!

Why don't you have a chat with the school about it, rather than leaving notes for the teacher? Maybe come up with some suggestions for them like the recycling awareness?

I find it useful to know how much my ds1 eats, as he eats very little. Also - can you imagine how much rubbish the school would end up with! As far as I know schools have only one refuse collection a week. Where would they put it all? It would be a prime attraction for rats etc also.

All the rubbish may well go into the same landfill site, but you pay for that via your council tax. The school on the other hand has to budget for waste disposal.

Staff (like myself) are employed to look after the children and see to their general welfare over the lunch break. We are not paid to clean up after each and everyone of them.

Put a plastic bag in the lunch box and train your child to put leftovers in to it and then to put the bag in your bin at home at the end of the day.

I think kids should be encouraged to recycle all the bits they can, compost, cardboard, platic and foil, then put the rest in a landfill bin.

I get fed up cleaning out sticky old lunchboxes and I have four who all have them.

To be honest Hurricane, I think you're the one putting trivial objections in the way of sensible ideas.

So many parents manage to clear away their children's lunches without any problems, how is it so different for you? Many of the suggestions have been very practical and sensible. My own children each take a plastic lunchbox. Inside it are 3-5 plastic containers of various shapes and sizes. Inside one goes the sandwich or other savoury element, inside another their yoghurt if they're having one, home-made muffin or whatever in another. You get the picture. It takes no doing for a child to put any leftovers or wrappings (not that wrappers should be necessary) inside one of the smaller containers, snap it shut and pop it back into the lunchbox. We have 3 and 4 year-olds at our playgroup who use a similar system and manage to deal with it all themselves, with no adult help and no resultant mess.

As to adults not doing the same, we do. If my husband or I take a packed lunch, we do bring back our apple cores or banana skins and compost them at home.

Our school actually has lots of 'green' policies and recycling initiatives - we were one of the first primary schools in the country to have a special 'rocket' accelerator composter, and that is used for apple cores etc from playtime snacks and for school meals leftovers. But I still think it is the right thing to do for children to take their stuff home at lunchtime. I'm still bewildered it can be such an issue - everyone in real life I've asked about this since the topic was first posted on Thursday has been amazed it's a problem.

I can only repeat, it takes me less than 15 minutes to make 3-4 packed lunches, and no more than 10 minutes to clear them up and wash them up at the end of the day. No mess, no angst.

If it really causes so much grief in your household, I can only suggest school dinners or coming home to lunch as a solution...

You obviously missed the post where I suggested the children themselves be responsible for taking care of the rubbish - sorting and composting. As it is, according to your reports, they already wrap up leftovers and empty drinks bottles before returning it to mum or dad. How much more efficient if they sorted it into appropirate containers to then get recycled or composted. If schools get charged for this then they shouldn't. Seems like common sense to me and in everyone's interest not to mention that of the planet! If parents really want to sift through their child's detritus (still think this bizarre) then their child can still return their rubbish where mum or dad can deal with it as tehy choose. I wouldn't choose or want to do this but I am not given that choice.