Independent school Fees (CoVid19)

[0RedandYellowandPinkandGreen]

Please be kind - first post and still finding my way around the site.

Our DC is at an Independent school (upper end of the junior years). The school has said that they are freezing fees for now, and next term's fees are due in full as usual. However, they will be looking to credit any cost savings they can find, later (for example the savings on food and trips). No deferred fees nor other direct discounts have been offered at this point. Does this seem reasonable in the circumstances? The school appears to be working hard to provide some online teaching, and is usually fantastic otherwise, but at the moment, it leaves a lot to be desired

Apparently a number of other schools have already offered a % discount.

Also, do we know if any schools are looking to make certain members of their staff furloughed (for example, maintenance staff...) as a way to make savings?

It sounds like potentially the right thing to do - but very difficult to judge, and very much depends on the school. I’d say the school does need to put its arms around the parents, and likewise - the parents need to put their arms around the school.
ie-today.co.uk/Article/coronavirus-independent-schools-patience-generosity-parents/

Not heard yet. Our school has 3 million cash according to accounts and so it won’t be a massive hit if they offer a discount. Happy to pay full fees as long there is a full timetable of teaching and not a million worksheets and online links with zero feedback. I know that DC’s teacher has kids and I understand he won’t be able to teach full time. OTOH, I can’t expect my employer to subsidize the school through me not working but teaching.

@sleepwhenidie let’s work on the basis that these parents don’t actually need the discount.

Annual fee - £15k
Fee for the term - £5k
15% discount on fees for one term - £750
Let’s say 200 parents all take the discount - 200 x £750 = £150k

How many independent schools can take that kind of hit?

Obviously, parents who now find themselves in financial difficulty should do what they have to.

Hadjab if the discount is more or less the costs they won't be incurring (lunch, additional spend for after school clubs, cleaning, school transport) then I should think most could. My DC's schools do not charge separately for these things. It would also depend very much on its owners and how full the school is as well. An undersubscribed school would struggle more whereas a school with very few empty places (most central London independents) less so, and one with a corporate owner with deep pockets would also fare differently. You can't generalise about this any more than you can about 'all private schools being good/better than state.'

@sleepwhenidie the cleaners still need their wages, the lunch staff still need their wages, the after school club staff still need their wages. Just because they don’t have a school to clean doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get paid. It’s their mortgage, families etc too.

Those staff will be employees of contractors, presumably furloughed (again, possibly dependent on size of school, set up)?

private schools are furloughing non essential staff that can't work at the moment, ie cleaners, cooks, gardeners, drivers, TA's, office admin. The Govt is covering 80% of their salaries including 3% pension & NI. This is why schools are able to offer discounts off fees for summer term. If they don't offer a discount you should ask if staff have been furloughed etc.

Well in which case the school still needs to pay the contractors - or they will go out of business too! Yes it will be dependent on the school - but contractors or not, insurance in many cases doesn’t cover coronavirus. My view is to do what you can to help the school get through. It’s hopefully only one term, but could mean a tremendous amount for the future of the school.

@ceejay54321 , the contractors can furlough their own staff, for example if the school food is outsourced to Compass then compass can furlough all the kitchen staff based at that school. All workers with an employment contract who are unable to work can be furloughed by their employer.

How many 4+ 7+ 11+ and 13+ parents will be rethinking or planning for a place in a state school for Sept or the following year instead of taking up the one they were planning on in the indie sector I wonder?

I really think schools will be hit doubly hard, current parents demanding discounts now and prospective parents wondering if the state sector is safer if they were looking at smaller schools.

Will the Govt have to buy them if they go under and there is no capacity in the local State schools?!

You’re right-sorry I didn’t think.. That’s swayed me. So yes a discount based on staff who’ve been furloughed.

This situation is just so sad for independent schools.

I do think they should look at what costs they aren't incurring and also who they can furlough.

For costs, there may be some additional ones (licences for online stuff?) but also savings for power, general supplies, no need for cover staff, no coaches for sports trips, no visiting theatre groups etc as well as obvious things like no lunches and no trips. Not necessarily a huge amount but should be looked at.

They clearly can't furlough teaching staff or quite a lot of the admin staff but can furlough the staff who aren't really going to be teaching - (PE staff/TAs unless being used to help with key workers or generally) and even more in secondary schools - lab technicians etc.

I don't want them to go out of business but equally they need to be responsible and look at what they can do given the circumstances.

JoanofBark I think you're exactly right. If a school isn't very oversubscribed, then it might well find itself not full in September, both from prospective parents pulling out, and from current parents giving notice - so that's another financial loss they'll have to bear. Also - I do wonder what will happen with international boarders. I can easily envisage a situation where schools reopen to UK students in late summer or September, but are forced by the government to remain closed to all international students or those from certain countries (eg where CV is still rife) for some time longer.

I think a lot of private schools will go under

@JoanofBark, I agree it will hit admissions hard, esp parents who "aren't sure" if they can afford it, they will step away from the Opendays and not consider. Also the school hardships funds will have to prioritise current pupils esp in Years 10 & 12 - half way through curriculums and difficult to move. The scholarship / bursary pots for 2021 will be tiny. I also think this will make private schools rethink some of their provision, ie the extra MFL language or dance lessons offered, they may fall off the curriculum to focus on core teaching.

@JoanofBark - crumbs, good point. I wonder if anyone is thinking that?

Our school is so oversubscribed, I don't think they will struggle to fill places. My assumption might be wrong though, given the changing climate.

The furlough point is a good one @GU24MUM. From what I've heard, and seen, there is no recognition or mention of this from the schools. I have no idea what sort of salary the TAs, cleaners, maintenance staff are on, but I imagine it would probably go quite some way to giving the non-essential staff the security they need right now and the school the certainty that their staff will be there to return when things go back to relative 'normal'.

It sounds like some parents are going to really struggle (over and above whatever their usual financial family forecasting looks like) and might actually need the school to be making those savings now, or, at least promise to look into furlough, so there is a realistic chance of a tangible saving, rather than a vague promise to look into things more generally and credit anything back later.....

0Red, ours talks about being oversubscribed and sets one of the tougher exams but the reality is that we are at the edge of one of the Grammar areas so everyone sits for about 6 schools and ours is the definitely second choice to the Grammars and in hot competition with the local excellent comps - what sets it apart is the pastoral, sport, drama, music - basically all the extras...if I was a new parent I’d be very unsure if those things were about to be axed!

I just had a discussion over dinner about contracted companies. The company will be paid - probably on a monthly basis, and - as its impossible to say when the schools will be open again - the schools will probably need to keep that contract going. It’s going to be incredibly difficult for the contractor to work out and negotiate a discount for the schools.

The school I worked at also gave the impression of being oversubscribed/entrance exams etc. The reality was only a few year groups were full and everyone would get a place if it was there. The reality was that we needed to attract as much custom as possible in a highly competitive area for schools.

CeeJay, yes I agree! I would assume though, that the majority of their costs are based on raw materials (food, sundries) and people. Just like restaurants are closing up shop for the moment, you'd expect that the catering suppliers are (sadly going to struggle, like almost most businesses but), among other things, will look to furlough their staff and take advantage of whatever other government support is available to them. If that's the case, then shouldn't the school be looking to similarily take advantage of this, and renegotiate a discount that is then reflected in a discount of fees? Health warning: I may be talking daft talk, and this is totally out of my comfort zone, so please feel free to tell me like it is!

Nearly every independent school in our area have offered discounts of 10-30% and this should be given to every parent . At the end of the day the school is a business and is run as such. If the business isn’t providing a full service, there should be a reduction in fees as there is in any other industry

Should add that our school is an over subscribed south west London school that has plenty in the bank so can take the hit.

Catering staff will be on a contract of course...to provide meals for the full school year. You don’t buy them in on a weekly basis. Maintenance will need to be done, the school and grounds can’t go to rack and ruin because school is shut. Security for the buildings and the contract there will need to be upheld. Admissions and international relations staff needed more than ever. And the teachers are still teaching of course. So I wonder, other than a few cleaners and matrons, who you would furlough to enable you to get your ‘discount’

As one of the ones with reception starters in sept I'm finding this very interesting. I can't justify the fees for them to be "homeschooled" by me -preventing me from working. There is already talk about second wave sept-Oct which would be very disruptive to reception children so wondering if better off leaving them in nursery (outdoor) until compulsory school age and starting them in year 1 -if the world has returned to normal, although I imagine I'll lose my deposit (quite rightly) if I chose to do this.
Also, is it considered rude/unusual to ask to see their financial reports before joining? Thanks