Can you tell a child's intellect as early as reception?

[Cherryblossom200]

Hi everyone,

I have a little girl who has just turned 5, she's doing well and very happy at school. But I'm starting to find it a bit disheartening to find lot of the awards/certificates are always given to the same children. It's natural as a parent to wonder why your child does get one. Plus when I occasionally see some of the art other children her age produce it's seems to be way ahead.

I've been feeling a bit worried about it and thought perhaps I should have a chat with her teacher who is fab. But don't want to come across as a pushy parent either! But I would like to know if my DD is struggling.

I guess I'm wondering if it's too early to tell how well a child will do from as early as reception? If a child is a bit behind will that continue?

Cherry x

Agree with people who say being Happy at school is very important.
My 2 questions are Primary parents evenings were
Are they happy and interacting well with the rest if the class?
Is their behaviour good?
Whether the teacher has been gushing (DD) or saying they are about where they are supposed to be (DS) I’ve always wanted to know the same 2 things

The thing about art is that you will immediately notice the pieces are are really good and not really register the artwork that is more average. Similarly, it is easy to notice the children that always seem to get certificates / awards, not the ones that are quietly getting on with things.

DD1 got all the awards, picked for main parts in plays, drama, singing and music. In reception Head said she would end up in Oxford, she did. Had some really nasty comments from other parents though :-(

DD2, same school. Terrible time. Why are you not like your sister. Always in trouble, never top, no awards, left feeling completely deflated and dismissed. Now in 6th form, has just won three competitions, for Writing, Art and Photography, Distinctions in Lamda, an academic scholar and applying to Oxford. REALLY wants to go back to primary school and say something rude!!

Different children, different rates of educational maturity. Same outcome. Never, ever, write children off, they may amaze you.

Baaahhh great post and well done to your children 👍

I most certainly haven't written my DD off. I sat with her this morning and her reading and writing really is very good. She just isn't quite there with her drawing/art yet but I'm sure that'll come a bit later on.

I totally understand how you feel, my DD1 in reception never had an award, she was top of the class, is exceptional in her reading and writing and is so polite and well behaved. She is also shy and doesn't put her ideas forward. My DD2 is the same without the shyness. She is loud and quite overbearing at times. She has won the class award for the most points 11 times since September. I'm actually embarrassed now at the school as I feel for all the children who haven't had one as I was the parent of a sad child last year feeling how unfair it was.

DD seemed academically quite ahead until about 11 when she ‘peaked’. As a teen and adult she was very average - did well in exams but had to really slog away to get the grades. Found uni hard work academically.

At 5 she knew her tables, read fluently, could build technically lego without help and had a very good vocab and was creative. She didn’t stay on the same trajectory throughout though so I’d say while you can get a rough idea as to how intellegent a child might be quite early on, it seems far from an exact science.

It is bloody annoying when the same kids get awards and prizes and your child who works hard and behaves well gets bugger all. Teachers should reward effort regardless of ability.

Thanks everyone, your stories are really interesting especially hearing that some kids excelled early on and then dipped.

That's the thing, my DD is a very sweet friendly girl, but not the shouty, look at me type. So I think she sometimes gets a bit forgotten about which I'm a bit annoyed by. A friend of mine who had a DD in the same class is also baffled why her DD isn't getting the teacher award either, she comes across as bright and a hard worker. So I've come to realised that it's not down to academic ability at all. I think the kids are chosen because they are louder and some perhaps because they are trouble makers! Still not fair really 😆

My brother - who is currently doing his Phd in Harvard, having completed a Masters degree at Cambridge (with First Class Honours) and another First Class Honours degree from Queen Mary, having worked several years for Goldman Sachs straight out of uni - was a terrible student at primary school.

He was the youngest in his year and had to be interviewed before the school allowed him to join his year group. My mum always retells the story. The Headmaster asked him: "Why do you want to go to school?" My brother replied: "Actually, I don't want to go to school at all. School is stupid." My mum started kicking him furiously under the table only for him to repeat it louder: "School is stupid!" He definitely matured only towards the end of secondary school and more towards university. At uni, however, he absolutely excelled.

There is huge variations at that age and a lot can change as they get older. At this stage in reception my ds2 wasn't in school full-time yet and still had a nap most afternoons. He left year 6 aged 11 with a reading age of 14.

Genuinely, don’t worry. My dd1 didn’t even read a single word until she was well past her 6th birthday, yet she’s just managed a degree with a 1st in English literature. She was always well behaved at school, but rarely got noticed as she was quiet. My boys similar too. Just seemed very ok in primary and then excelled in secondary.
The important thing is that your dd is happy and engaged. It really is so important.
Try not to worry about what everyone’s child is achieving. High achievers in primary don’t necessarily go in to achieve well in life and visa versa.
If there is anything to worry about, her school will raise a concern with you.

I was always completely shit at art, and I have a PhD. Not being able to draw is no marker of intelligence. I’m also not particularly musical, or good at sports or drama (I like watching it, and like doing plenty of sports, I’m just not good at them).

I also didn’t used to get stars or house points in one year for coming top in tests or achieving anything “because you always come top, so it isn’t an achievement for you”. The points went to whoever came second. Now THAT was a quick way to breed resentment.

Both DH and I were decidedly average until about 12-13 when we started to excel academically. I really have no idea why, I remember just starting to do really well and suddenly coming top in everything. For me this was perfect as when I went to a top uni I was just amazed to be there and couldn't believe my luck. Friends who had akways been top of the class I think found it much harder to adapt to being average and no longer standing out.

How well a child does academically is a mixture of natural intelligence and education. If you teach at home, she will do better at school, as long as she enjoys the learning at home. So fun activities which reinforce school learning are always good. Playing shops, reading and getting her to read bits, and even doing workbooks aimed at her age if she likes doing them. Children do not all level out in the end, as can be seen by the vast array of GCSE results.

You say she is not as far ahead as the other children at art, but does she like art and, if she doesn't, does it matter? Buying a couple of meters of plastic back material is useful, then she can have as area where she can be as messy as she likes with paints or felt tips or playdough, without the worry of damaging the carpet or table.

However, you have a child who mixes well and is happy at school. This is a really good start to school life.

It's too early to know. You might have an idea if she was way ahead or if she was really struggling but you just can't tell how a middle of the road kid will develop.

At primary, I think children tend to represent the nature of the cultural capital in the home. So artistic children will have parents that have encouraged art in the early years because there's been a lot of drawing and painting with the child, there's lots of art materials around, and the child has watched adults engaged in that activity.

Same goes for all disciplines, only the performative ones are more recognised by other parents because they are performative. You don't see the kids that are great at geometry because, in primary, you don't get wall displays of isosceles triangles.

If it makes you feel any better DH is a genius according to his IQ, no ones going to be hanging his artwork anytime soon. Amazing at pretty much everything bar art.

Way over thinking.

Ds rarely spoke until p3 (yr2), didn't do much work, slow to start reading, drawing was atrocious. P4 he started coming out of his shell bit by bit.

He is 15 now and just got straight As in his prelims (mocks) and teachers complain he never shuts up. Not sure yet if he is academic but he works hard to achieve. Children, especially that young, develop at different rates, support and encourage them and you will see many changes you don't expect through their school career.

I wish more schools would have an award system whereby every child’s contribution is acknowledged.

In DGDs reception class they get a point for things like bringing things in for show and tell, being kind, effort as well as for reading their books at home etc. It’s not targeted at academic achievement. When they have the required number of points they can choose something out of the lucky dip. It means that it’s not just the same faces getting acknowledged as there’s always opportunities for everyone to accrue points.

No, every really intelligent person that I know was a late bloomer. Not to mention academic attainment isn’t an indicator of intellectual ability. Certificates at reception only tell you that a kid is good at doing reception.

Yes but it depends on the 'pool' she is in and how many there are in the year group etc.. my dd went to a school with 130 pupils per year and was always at the top , she is now in year 11 and is predicted A and A star ( 8 and 9 grades) so who knows .. I do think kids peak at different times as my friends dd who struggled in juniors is predicted some high grades along with some lower ones so anything is possible ...

My kids went all thru junior school without winning anything. My son did get one non academic prize one year in senior school. My daughter has never received one. I sat through every prize giving day with them cheering on all the other kids, often the same ones year after year (if you are a brilliant math/musician/sports star one year you are likely to be the best the next year too).
Now my son is top of his year in his chosen vocational course at college and my daughter is predicted to get 8s and above in all her GCSEs bar one (7). So while prizes can reward excellence the lack of one does not mean less intelligence or success.
As long as your child is happy and doing their best and achieving in line with age appropriate expectations then step back.
I do find those 'star of the week's type things are either a bribe for good behaviour or just rotated so everyone gets one which is pointless.

I completely agree @LadyMonicaBaddingham.
My boys when small would get upset as the child who regularly was sent out of class and would bung up the toilets, would regularly get rewarded. My sons would say ‘we never get rewarded even though we are never naughty’
It’s really sad.
Ifs often the case where quiet well behaved children get overlooked.
At secondary, they often reward with house points. It’s always the children with issues who get plenty, and the quiet children who barely get any acknowledgement.

It’s good that the class awards do more than recognise attainment. Children that are getting full marks, in top group for phonics etc can easily tell they’re doing well. Those who struggle more (either academically or with behaviour) need other ways the teacher can demonstrate when they’ve tried particularly hard or managed their behaviour better than usual.

I suspect if you looked at attainment in reception and compared it to attainment through the school career in general you’d tend to find that kids doing well in reception tend to do well later on too, and vice versa - but that there will also be lots of kids who buck the trend as well.

As for art - I think that’s definitely an area that can be extremely developmental at this age - eg they may just not have mastered the motor and cognitive skills required to draw well. Or it may just not be their ‘thing’.

DS1 was slow mastering motor skills and had little interest in drawing (I’d give him pens and he’d do a quick scribble and move on) - his drawing in reception was very basic. DS2’s excellent fine motor skills were remarked on from when he was a baby. He loves drawing and can get very engrossed. He’s only just three and is ahead of where DS1 was in reception. Seems to be a mix of their interests and ability for them

My DD is aged 12 and did not pass her year 1 phonics screening test - I think 14 out of 40. Slow to pick up reading.
She could not spell at all and this was all the way through primary. Never in top set for anything,
Always well behaved and worked as hard as she could etc and apparently not dyslexic either.
I remember some parents complaining their children were so intelligent, they were not being pushed enough, as the teacher was spending too much time with less able students!

She is year 8 at senior school and is upping her game and quietly getting on with it. She is “top of second set” for French, Maths, English and high scores in every single subject.
She has come on a long way from primary school.

The girls that were the Star pupils in Reception and, according to our teacher, “streets ahead intellectually” didn’t amount to much academically as we got older. One is a body builder after leaving school with mediocre GCSE’s and the other left after A-Levels to be a nanny abroad. In her late thirties she still hasn’t put down any routes.

The same teacher repeatedly called me stupid and arranged for me to see an Educational Psychologist because she thought I was “backwards”. I was assessed as being bright but anxious.

I spent my entire schooling believing I was stupid so I never bothered revising as didn’t see any point. In my opinion, I was weaker academically than my peers and any good results were a fluke. My attendance at school was poor with me missing about 75% in lead up to GCSE. I was stunned to get almost all A*s and a couple of As. Again, I thought it was a fluke. At A/S and A-Level I got 100% in most of my exams and my results were in the top 0.25 % of the country that year. I was advised to go to Oxford or Cambridge but didn’t have the belief in myself to take up the place as I’d seen myself as stupid since I was in Reception. I graduated top of my class at university and also did very well in my MA. I now work in Academia, teaching university students and researching and again, I am doing very well.

I think I was seen as “The least likely to...” back in Reception. It had such a detrimental effect on me and my self belief.

Really, Reception attainment means SO little. Your DD has plenty of time to discover where she shines. Happy children do better all round in life. That is the main thing to remember. Imposter Syndrome is a horrible thing to live with. No point being a miserable intellectual sort!