So disappointed with school's attitudes...long; sorry.

[MarmaladeSun]

We moved from Germany at the beginning of the year. Whilst we were there, my children attended a forces school (previous to this they had been to a Catholic school). My DD, who was then 8, was accused of bullying and there was a long drawn out drama during which time my DD proclaimed her innocence, and knowing my DD I believed her. She was continuously questioned in school, and DH and myself told her that if she was questioned again we were to be called into the school to be present (the allegations were quite serious and she couldn't cope with it alone). She told the headmistress this, and was told 'I don't care what your Mother says' and interrogated her again. DH phoned to complain. THEN, after about 2 weeks, we received a phone call from the head saying 'cough cough actually just wanted to let you know that it wasn't your daughter at all. The real culprit has owned up'. DH then asked for an apology for my DD to which the head refused, saying that she wouldn't apologise to anyone. A big row ensued and we withdrew our children from the school. We returned to UK, and the children now go to a 'civilian' school, but the attitudes here are just as bad. Whilst I was pregnant, a child told my DD that she 'hoped the baby would die' and when I complained (that was the latest in a string of comments' the head teacher said 'oh well, the football was on tv last night, and a lot of the kids stayed up late to watch it. They're a bit tired'!!! I was flabbergasted to say the least. Then during a conversation someone said the word 'gay' to which the TA said that that meant happy. DD said it also meant a boy having a boyfriend or a girl having a girlfriend. She was asked how she knew and she said that Mummy had told her (she had asked and I told her in simple terms...I believe in not lying to the kids). The TA told her I had no business telling my daughter things like that! Cheeky ***. THEN, and worse of all, this TA, upon hearing that my daughter 'knew where babies come from' (bear in mind I was pregnant and had had to do a bit of explaining) told my DD that she was 'the sort of girl who would fall pregnant at 15'!!! I am furious, but have been mulling it over as I don't want to make waves for the kids and have to move them to yet another school. What on earth ever happened to respect and honesty? What do you all think? Teachers, I'd welcome your opinions.

It must be nice to live in a world where you never have to say sorry when you're wrong. Are you sure she's a headteacher, not a politician?

I'd try and establish absolutely 100% if the TA had said this to your daughter, and if she has, complain. In fact, complain anyway about her telling you not to divulge to your dd the facts of life. She sounds mad.

Message withdrawn

As a teacher- I'd be a bit peeved at this- not you but both schools. However I am secondary not primary.
If a child says they want their parent present when they're being questioned for something we would respect that and phone the parent although sometimes that would take things to a higher level of interviews in the heads office... I can see the school wanting to nip the problem in the bud quickly though- here i can see both sides BUT personally I'd respect the requests of the parents especially (it turned out to be wrong) if the school thought they had a persistent offender then they'd ba better off calling the parents in (please don't think I'm calling your child a bully- I'm not but it's what the school thought at the time)
Regarding this school- I'm afraid that comments like this do happen (about the baby) amongst kids- personally I'd be horrified and talk to the child about how cruel it was etc But again this is a primary school and the teachers probably handle things differently.
regarding the gay issue- again by secondary we're a lot more open about these things but IMO I think it's ridiculous and perhaps the TA is old fashioned.
I'd be cross and understand your anger but maybe a primary teacher can give you a different perspective on it- I know there are some primary teachers on here.

I would be appalled by the TA's direct nastiness towards your DD. She should not say such things and it is totally againstthe policies on good practise. I would defintielycomplain about this TA, and insist that something is follwoed up.

I agree with Yorkiegirl - children cam say some horrid things, but the adults invovled here need to be doing more.

Thanks all for your comments. The reason why I took the comments about the baby so seriously is that we lost a baby a few months earlier, and it was extremely traumatic where I had to be rushed into hospital in Germany for an emergency operation, and had to have blood transfusions. It all happened so quickly that the children had to come to the hospital with us (we had no family out there) and when this kid said this to DD she was so upset. She had literally flown into my arms sobbing and it had taken me a good 5 minutes to calm her down enough to get it out of her. This TA is another army wife (as am I) and if you're not familiar with this way of life you would not believe how 'cliquey' it is. As for the matter in germany, I am still involved in the dispute, as I have gone to the education executive, who has closed ranks with the head, saying 'although your daugher said nothing, or did nothing, we feel an apology is inappropriate' or words to that effect. I won't rest until she gets an apology. The whole thing has taught my daughter not to trust teachers and to bottle things up, as (in her opinion)they don't listen anyway. Yorkiegirl, don't worry, I know most schools are different; I am a qualified TA myself, and have worked in both primary and secondary schools so I have seen first hand how things should be handled. I am just furious and feel helpless.

Oh, and also I told DD about homosexuality in such simple terms she didn't even bat an eyelid. No details, just that some people fall in love with people of the same sex. That was it. And let's face it, most 9 or 10 year olds know a lot more than this anyway. She's not an 'all knowing' kind of a girl either, she still believes in the tooth fairy . I just don't know whether I should speak to the TA/mother herself first or go direct to the school. I know it would cause a lot of bad feeling but it's really festering inside.

Personally i always make a big show of apologising to kids if i get something wrong. It teaches them a lot that adults are happy to admit if wrong.
I'd complain definetely.

Just curious Marmaladesun: Why do the teaching authorities not believe an apology is appropriate? Do they really think "teaching means never having to say you're sorry"? It seems extremely odd and a very bad example to set to children. Not exactly conducive to building a trusting, respectful relationship.

But is it worth going to all the trouble of fighting to get an apology? I know it may be a matter of principle, but tbh I would just say to your DD that this particular school is nuts, but most schools and teachers have far more commonsense and that they wouldn't treat her in the way this one has. I don't think you will force them into an apology, because you don't have any power over them. They're obviously not interested in what is right, either, so chances of an apology are very slim and you could spend months banging your head against the wall for no reason. With a baby on the way and adjustments to the move to be made, I think you could channel your energy much more usefully. Just my opinion, tell me to shut up if I'm wrong.

LOL Meanbean, I wouldn't tell you to shut up! I know what you're saying; I think it's that I feel so passionately about saying sorry if I'm wrong that I'm trying to teach the kids the same. And yes, I think it has maybe become a bit of a personal vendetta! By the way (on a happier note) I had the baby 10 weeks ago; a little girl .

Another P.S. I came from a childhood where I never heard my Mum saying sorry..not once EVER. This is possibly why I'm so crazy over this.

Agree meanbean- about forcing the apology- is it worth it? can't you tell your dd that sometimes adults get things wrong.
congrats on dd by the way

Congratulations!

Marmaladesun, how terrible for you and your dd. I think it's sad that stuff like that could really ruin a child's love for learning. Is the school that your dd is at now a state school (I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a civilian school). Maybe you need to get her into a school that has no connection with the military as it sounds like in your case this has been a source of trouble. I think it's worth making a complaint if you can do it without getting too worked up over it and ruining the time you spend with your family. At least if your complaint is successful it might save another child/family going through the same. Personally I would also make a complaint about the TA.

Hey MS, just read through all this.
Think you and everyone else is right, however frustrating that may be, but I think persisting in trying to get an apology from forces school will just eat away at you and get you more and more angry.
On the second issue of the current school, that doesn't sound right at all to me (not that the first one did either btw).
Please don't take this the wrong way but, are you absolutely sure this TA said those things? Sometimes when children report back the words get twisted a little, just enough to put a completely different slant on things. I only say this from experience.
If you are certain, I think it needs to be followed up. This person has not acted professionally and someone at the school needs to address that with her. I don't think it should be you. Your DD is in primary school? You need to decide if you think it most appropriate to speak to DD's class teacher or the headteacher.
Whichever, I would probably phone and make an appointment.
You say there are lots of other things you're not happy about. How big are these issues? If they are fairly minor, I'd perhaps not mention them at the same time as this complaint. I think if you have too many complaints all at once, you could just come accross as a moaner. (not suggesting that you are!)
That's what I'd do anyway.
Sorry if I'm completely off the mark!

Hi Sofia. By civilian school I mean that in Germany the school was on the army camp, and run by service children's education and was entirely forces children. Here the school is a 'normal' one, although with lots of forces kids as this is a garrison town. I am thinking seriously about moving schools but DS is very happy at this school and as we only moved here in Feb I am loathe to shift them about again IYSWIM.
Rowlers, yes I do think DD was accurate in what she said. She is a very intelligent child, and not likely to get it wrong. Had it been DS I might have misgivings as he is prone to the 'Chinese whispers' syndrome, bless him.

I always do this...send the message and then think of something else! lol. The other issues I am talking about are fairly minor in isolation, but as a whole they all add up.

MarmaladeSun, I think you won't get an apology as a lot of institutions think they are admitting to some sort of liability if they apologise. It would be best to forget that one, I feel. Also, maybe they felt that they were acting with the best knowledge they had at the time, ie. maybe someone told them it was your daughter and then later retracted, so the school felt it wasn't doing anything wrong at the time. Obviously they should apologise but as you have left that school the fight isn't worth the effort.

Actually, i've just realised, what Cam said is right - they won't apologise in case it makes them legally liable if you the sue them for something. It's a bit like apologising when you have a traffic accident and you're in the wrong - you mustn't, because it might be construed as an admission of liability and therefore make your insurance null and void. So that's probably the basis they're working on. Which is actually far more understandable than just that they're nuts.