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Very low/lowish income family - you know your kids could go to private school - right?

54 replies

Hotdrop1 · 13/01/2020 09:15

Hi. Just what it says really. I find myself surrounded by families who have got full bursaries for their children to go to private school - some live in council housing, others in luxury rented apartments (paid by families overseas) and who do low income jobs through choice. Am struck at how many people at the lower end of the class system (sorry for the crass terminology) feel that private schools are for the rich only. This is just to give you all a heads up that it's not - so get applying - you never know.

OP posts:
Surreyhillsbutnobike · 19/01/2020 09:31

I live near two independent schools. Neither of which are as good as the nearest state school. It is not always the best choice academically to go private.

XelaM · 21/01/2020 10:31

Is it true that bursaries at Eton are means-blind?

Beelzebop · 21/01/2020 10:36

I was one of these kids. It's great if you can get the gold dust 100%. Very rare! Then you need to buy huge amounts of kit. Then you have school trips etc to fund. The fees are only the first barrier to less well off families.

KeepThosePlatesSpinning · 21/01/2020 10:52

@Ratbag82 private schools are generally very poor with ASD kids. They bring down their precious exam results. Try and keep your DC in state education if you can.

DSandDD · 22/01/2020 21:18

@XelaM - Indeed, Eton bursaries are needs blind. You don't apply for a bursary until after your child has been offered a place.

brilliotic · 23/01/2020 10:40

If I understand this correctly, the bursaries are not needs-blind or means-blind or whatever at Eton. The offers for a place are (or they are aiming for that, anyway).
The idea, on paper, is that they offer places to whoever best fulfils their entrance criteria, with no regards to any financial needs.
Then they make sure that everyone who was offered a place can actually take it up, so - dependent on each family's financial circumstances, one child would get a 100% bursary, another a 15% bursary, a third would get nothing at all.
The difference being that in most schools, you apply for a place (and a bursary at the same time). You get offered the place after e.g entrance exam. Then your bursary application gets assessed and you may or may not be awarded a (sufficient) bursary, so you end up having to say no to the offered place. If the school really likes your child they might be a bit more likely to offer you a sufficient bursary, but they will certainly not be offering to every applicant who passed the entrance exam and needs financial help. Out of all the children who passed the exam and applied for a bursary, some will be awareded a bursary, some won't. How many are awarded a bursary, will depend on how many full-fee-paying children are in the intake that year.

Whereas at Eton, if you pass the exam and are offered a place, and need a bursary, you (supposedly) are certain to get that bursary. They will still check your finances, so you can't get a bursary just by claiming you need one whilst leading an expensive life-style. But finances won't stop your boy from going to Eton if he passes the entrance exam and is offered a place (and that offer will have been made 'needs-blind' meaning they don't check to offer places only to those who can afford the school).
So, every boy who passes the exam and is offered a place, should be able to take that place up.
However for now that is their intention, and hope for the future - they aren't quite there yet. This can cost the school a lot of money. Eton is rich enough that they can go a long way in this direction, but if 70% of the children passing the exam need substantial bursaries to pay the fees, and only 30% will be fully fee paying, then even Eton won't be able to offer 'needs-blind'. They need enough 'paying customers' in order to be able to afford to let the rest attend 'for free'.
As long as a large majority of applicants for Eton is capable of paying full fees, they can offer to anyone who passes the exams without checking finances first, and then pay bursaries to that minority of applicants who can't pay full fees. At the moment it is about one in five that receives financial support, which is a lot, but still means that 4 in 5 pay full fees.
If lots of less wealthy families were to apply, they could not offer 'needs-blindly' to everyone who passes the exams, or they would end up with 10% of rich students essentially cross-subsidising the 90% who also passed the exams but can't afford the fees. That would deplete their reserves very quickly, and the wealthy families would no longer go there anyway.

So they can only offer places 'needs-blindly' as long as the large majority of applicants (who pass the exams) can actually afford to pay all or at least most of the fees.

gingerchaos · 23/01/2020 11:01

That's all very well but the bursary doesn't cover all the expensive extras like rugby tours of South Africa.

XelaM · 23/01/2020 11:57

@brilliotic That makes a lot of sense.

As for the OP, I think @mummy2aPrince has proved your point judging by her posts in the secondary schools forum. Her son got a 100% funded place at Reeds. Really superb for a boy who is also the main carer for his disabled mum and they live on benefits. The system can work!

SurpriseSparDay · 25/01/2020 17:14

Whereas at Eton, if you pass the exam and are offered a place, and need a bursary, you (supposedly) are certain to get that bursary.

That isn’t quite how I understand the position there. (Though, who knows, things might have changed in the last few months.) As far as I remember applications are needs blind, yes - and then those who are accepted but can’t pay the fees can apply for bursaries. Some will be successful, on a sliding scale from over 100% down to much less, depending on need. However if you’ve been accepted, and apply for a bursary but are not awarded one - then the offer of a place is (or has been) withdrawn. Which seems incredibly harsh but does, nevertheless make sense.

joan12 · 25/01/2020 17:34

Three at a super selective private school here. None on bursaries but just to dispel a few myths: all mine have uniform from the second hand shop, almost everyone does. The third has everything handed down. I'm sure there are some people who prioritize keeping up with the Joneses. That's not my interest, they're not my friends and likewise their kids are not on my children's radar. Plenty of hard working two income families who forego holidays etc etc, and with whom we have more in common.

There are bursary kids; ours have friends who live in social housing etc But as others have said, these are kids who do very well academically and also bring other talents to school life.

Our school has also recently had a big bursary drive. Won't give details as possibly outing. But I will be honest, I am pleased they intend to give more bursaries. I know some of my children's friends are on bursaries because they chat about it. They are lovely, grounded children. And we need more unspoilt, motivated kids who are grateful for the opportunities and grateful for what they have, rather than constantly asking for more and expecting it all to be handed to them on a plate. So please apply if it is something you are considering.

joan12 · 25/01/2020 17:39

Oh and just to say, there may be a contribution towards school trips. But even if there isn't, not all fee paying kids get to go on all the trips either. We can't afford the cricket tour or the ski trip. But one of mine loves history so yes, we'll do the ww1 battlefields for a hundred odd quid and time to save up for it. Our eldest had a school trip he really wanted to go on as a Christmas present one year.

VirtualHamster · 25/01/2020 17:43

You do have to live somewhere where independent schools actually exist though. There are no private schools in the county I grew up in

Changeembrace · 25/01/2020 17:55

* You're not likely to get one fro primary, they tend to go to families that are already attending but have a change in circumstances.*

I secured 100% one for my DS for years 5 and 6

StealthPolarBear · 25/01/2020 17:55

Really? Where's that? I live in the north east and even here there are plenty!

Changeembrace · 25/01/2020 17:56

* There are no private schools in the county I grew up in*

Do you mean county or country? If the former, what county?!

StealthPolarBear · 25/01/2020 17:56

SurpriseSparDay how is what you describe any different from any other independent school?

Changeembrace · 25/01/2020 18:02

My end of term bull? £10 for two secret Santa presents for my son to buy.

I bought all uniform second hand (£120 blazer for £35)

Extreme wealth is very evident at the school (extremely affluent SE town and this is country leading prep) but second hand shop is very busy! And I have detected no snobbery whatsoever on the watsapp group I’m on. Lots of messages about lost socks and what’s homework

I’m over the moon and my son is having the most incredible time. He was desperate to return to school after the Christmas holidays!

Changeembrace · 25/01/2020 18:02

end of term bill

SurpriseSparDay · 25/01/2020 18:21

Scale.

Intention.

Attitude. (They do, or did, actively encourage any parent with a clever, male child to apply for a place irrespective of income. Gives them a wide pool to choose from. And they look for other qualities in addition to a threshold level of intelligence. Whether they are currently succeeding in fulfilling their aspirations is open to argument ...)

Also the thing about bursaries really not (necessarily) being related to coming top in entrance exams.

StealthPolarBear · 25/01/2020 18:25

Thank you

Clymene · 25/01/2020 18:26

I think you may find that mummy2aprince has been rather economical with the truth @XelaM

The problem with the OP's advice is that, from the child's POV, it means applying to a school, possibly sitting an exam, finding out if you have a place and then finding out if the bursary is going to be enough to allow you to take that place up. Fairly brutal to go through all that and then find there's no way.

I was privately educated and wouldn't put my children through it.

GorkyMcPorky · 25/01/2020 18:28

What if one child was offered a bursary but their sibling wasn't though? That puts me off attempting in the first place.

joan12 · 25/01/2020 18:53

Continued progression through the school my kids go to is not guaranteed. So there are parents who are warned in Year 5 that their child may not be admitted to Year 7, even when siblings have gone through or are coming up behind. The school is not for everyone, and I don't think this is any different from the very many other situations where siblings go to different schools as one is offered a place eg at grammar, or a specialist music school, or an ASD school, for particular reasons. It's no different but understandably some families may feel it's not something they want to do.

And yes, you'd have to keep it all low key and big up the other options until it's a certainty. But again, it's like that with most admissions, unless you have a sure bet on your local school, which is rare these days.

XelaM · 25/01/2020 21:20

@joan12 Your experience is very similar to that of my daughter's prep school. All uniform from the second hand shop, especially since at least one item of clothing gets lost every other week! Hmm And no I have experienced no snobbery, although we're not at all wealthy and I struggle on one income to pay the school fees. Most kids are from nice hard-working families.

AnotherEmma · 25/01/2020 21:30

I had a year at a private school on a bursary and assisted place (before the government stopped offering them) and hated it. When we relocated I asked to go to a "normal" school.

I don't want to send my children to private school for various reasons - not just because of my personal experience, because I realise that obviously others' experiences are different.

"This is just to give you all a heads up that it's not - so get applying - you never know."
I think this is very patronising and I don't think that getting their children into a private school - where the uniform, equipment and extras will be extortionate and their children may always feel the "odd ones out" - is hardly going to be a priority for people on low incomes.

I think this is a classic case of rich/privileged people thinking everyone wants what they have.

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