St Columba's St Albans or state secondary?

[Dragoncharmer]

I've search the posts on Mumsnet and they are mostly positive, citing good pastoral care and a nurturing environment; academic achievement does not seem that high, considering pupils need to sit an entrance exam, and many of the local state schools have similar results.

He is currently at a good state primary, most of his friends including his best friend will be going to our local co-ed comprehensive.

I don't want to put him through the entrance exam and the Head teacher interview if he would be happier and do just as well at our local state school. I'm also worried in case he sits the exam and doesn't pass, in terms of his self-esteem.

My son has dyslexia - I presume that any extra support at St Columba's would be chargeable, I have asked the school but not had a clear reply on how much extra help would cost on top of the fees.

Our local state school secondary has a very good SEN department and I've met the SENCO there and I'm happy that they could support him well. He is achieving age related across all subjects, not an academic high-flyer but a hard working pupil.

He is well behaved, very popular with lots of friends, but shy with people he doesn't know well. I presume that most of the boys will be coming from Prep school, so will already know each other in Senior school.

TBH, I'm really not sure what we would be getting for the fees of £16,000 per year, plus all the extras. DH argues that the pupils would be better behaved at a private school, with less disruption from badly behaved children, and also smaller class sizes. He also thinks that our son would be less likely to get in with a "bad crowd" at a private school.

I think that you get good and bad in all schools, whether state or private and that it is a beneficial experience to be educated with a wide and varied group of children, for later life.
Similarly, I prefer a co-ed school over a boys school, which seems to be an artificial environment.

I'm talking myself out of St Columba's aren't I?
Convince me it's worth it, or otherwise help me to persuade DH that our son would do just as well at a co-ed state.

I don't know St Columba's at all, but it really does sound like you want your DS to go to the state school!

It’s not the top choice private school in the area for boys so it’s a bit of a haven as your DH suggests. The fees are very reasonable in comparison to some schools. I guess there will be extras.

You know your DC best. I don’t agree with the assertion that he’ll be friends with the wrong type of child. Is he likely to be swayed by the badly behaved? I’m sure you have a more discerning child than that.

If results are not great, it’s probably due to SEN and the less able. They assess because they don’t want low achievers or lots and lots of SEN DC. That makes their results look unattractive and it’s already looking that way to you.

For your money, would this school meet his needs? What about sport, music, art, drama, technology? Are these subjects better than in the state school? Would small classes be of benefit? What is the SEN provision like? Does it compare or is it better?

Can you afford it? This might be the biggest issue. Go state and you’ll have more money for other things. It’s not an easy choice but where would he fit in best and be happiest?

You mentioned extra support will be chargeable. What extra support does St Columba’s offer?

My son currently receives extra support at school with literacy, due to his dyslexia he has 1:1 sessions with the LSA and I presume that this would be charged extra at a private school. It's not a deal breaker, but something to consider; with school dinners, uniform, books and expensive trips, it all adds up!
I know that SCC do accept children with mild SEN, such as dyslexia, DS is bright, a good problem solver, but not an academic high flyer, he is achieving age related across all subjects, and works very hard.
So really not aiming for Oxbridge or a Russell Group University; DS has no clear idea of a career, although he talks about being a teacher or joining the police.
I don't agree at all with my DH's fear that he may get in with the "wrong crowd" at a state school. Our son is not easily led, with a very strong sense of right and wrong - after all he is thinking about a career in the police!
The sports facilities at St Columba's seem very good, but DS already belongs to several sports clubs outside of school and the state secondary also has a wide range of sports available, including rugby, which I have always associated with private schools.
Affordability is a big issue, it would be a big stretch of our finances and I'm really not convinced that the smaller class sizes are worth it; we could pay for a lot of tuition for much less than the annual school fees.
DS just wants to go to the same secondary school as most of his friends and I understand and respect that view. DH thinks that he is too young to understand or to make that choice.

I just wish that DH and I could agree - I suppose the fact he went to private Prep then a state secondary where he didn't do that well has coloured his judgement, I was state educated all the way through and did well, going on to Uni from state secondary, so that experience influences my views.
I just want him to go to a good school, where he will do well and be happy!

If he's doing well in a state primary what makes your DH think that will change at secondary? To get a 1:1 LSA with dyslexia normally takes a lot of prodding the school so it does sound like you know what to fight for and/or have been very fortunate with the state school. Private or state I would just make sure what support he would get and go with that. It doesn't sound like the private is worth the fees in your situation tbh.

Dodgeitornot, I'm fortunate my son goes to a good primary school that supports him well, I'm also very engaged with his teachers, arranging regular catch-up meetings to discuss his progress and what is/isn't working for him. I'm guess that it would be fair to say that I'm a hands on, proactive parent, who won't take no for an answer.
DH went to private Prep and tells me that he failed the entrance exam for private secondary, so there's a lot of history behind his frankly prejudiced view of state secondary schools.
I'm state educated, and I think that it is beneficial to mix with and learn to get along with a wide variety of people from different backgrounds, rather than be educated in a private school, bubble of homogeneous wealthy pupils.
So no, frankly, I don't think it is worth paying for private school fees. DH disagrees, perhaps because he feels he missed out on a private school education himself, so wants our DS to have what he didn't.
Our nearest secondary is rated "good", not outstanding but I don't set that much store by Ofsted ratings, I think a school rated good will keep on trying to improve, whilst an outstanding school may be more complacent and rest on its laurels.

I've worked in two outstanding schools, 1 requires improvement and one good. I would not send my children to the outstanding ones.

That's strange as obviously he has you to prove his theory wrong. The only thing you can do is to maybe show how expensive it will really be. With regards to state however, I would just make sure you speak to the senco at any open evening or even by sending an email and checking what provision your son will have access to. If there is a large population of SEN children that is a great sign. It also means they will likely have enough money in the pot/LSAs available to continue your son's support.

Individual withdrawal is rarely offered in secondary schools, unless you are an extreme case. Vert often it is small nurture groups of 4-10 children.
I would ask what SEN support model the schools have. The ones I saw when we were looking last year were:

'The Pathways'. Children are put in pathways: often called extended, core and support. Any support was timetabled in so no class withdrawals needed. Extended pathways had less time for eg English but had extra MFL. Support had no MFL but extra English.
'The out of school hours'. SEN children come in before and stay after school for individual or group interventions.
'the withdrawals'- no timetabling, just withdrawals as and when needed

I think your DH cannot forget that your son has specific needs that have to be met for him to succeed and more importantly be happy. Secondary school is such a big jump and it is exhausting. There is so much more writing, everything is quicker and there is so much more homework and things that have deadlines. Children are expected to communicate messages home, write emails to teachers etc. It is really important that he ends up in a school that can continue his dyslexia support. This may or may not be a private school but it may well be a state school.

Our DD has an EHCP and she's just started Y7. It was really hard finding the school for her and we also looked at private. We ended up in a great state school that goes above and beyond but it is still a struggle for her. She is lucky in that she has an EHCP. A lot of dyslexic children get overlooked in secondary school so it's so important to get it right. You will know once you find the school. We went to over 20 schools and when we went to this one I knew it was the one.

Sorry just wanted to add, if your DH went to a great prep that didn't succeed in prepping him for a private senior school than the prep was obviously not at great as he thinks it was.

My son is at St Columba’s having joined in Year 7. He went to another independent primary school. I would say about 60% of the boys came from the prep.

In terms of single sex, he has always been to a single sex school as has my daughter.
They are not socially awkward as they do a lot of sport with boys/girls so no issue there, at least for them.

My son doesn't have SEN, but I do know some boys that do, and I believe that they are well supported and don't believe that this is charged.

It isn't as selective academically as other surrounding schools but there are some very bright boys there. However the range is greater so the results reflect that. I suppose this is more reflective?

I can't tell you if your son will be better off at SCC than the mixed secondary. If the money is an issue then I probably wouldn't.

However my son has blossomed at the school. He has been nurtured and believed in and his confidence has grown. He has moved up sets (top for science and French, second for maths and English) and is performing to his ability. He has made some wonderful friends who are so kind and supportive of each other. He was awarded a top prize last year yet he's not the cleverest or sportiest kid but he is kind and he does work hard. For us the school has been the absolute right choice for our son. His sister is at a super selective school and it's the right school for her. I'm not saying private is best and his primary was certainly a waste of money, but for us SCC is worth every penny.

Good to hear that your son is having such a positive educational experience; I'm sure it's a very good school, but I'm just not convinced that it is worth us paying the money and the negative impact on our family finances. If we chose the state school, we would be able to afford top up tutoring to address any areas where my son needed help.

The majority of DS friends will go on to the local comprehensive and as transition to secondary is such a big step, I think that he would benefit from at least seeing some familiar faces, though I'm sure that schools work hard to ensure a smooth transition, if 60% of SCC pupils come from Prep, he may well feel a bit lost and left out away from all his primary school friends.

I believe that my DH is hung up on the fact he went to private primary but failed the entrance exam for private secondary. His mother was privately educated, both primary and secondary, so there is family pressure to send our son to private secondary, (although grandparents are not in a position to help out with the fees.)
I'm state educated and I have no experience whatsoever of private schools, so I've done a bit of research and it seems that only 6% of children attend them, and that the fees have been increasing above the rate of inflation, so that as a result, they are becoming more socially exclusive, in relation to the parental income needed to afford the fees. I'm not sure that being educated in a narrow peer group, based on family income is good preparation for adult life, when the ability to work with and get on with a wide variety of people from different backgrounds is a valuable skill.

I also have reservations about single sex schools. My son has been at a mixed primary and the boys are all just starting to talk about girls, before now they were invisible! So just at the point when they are developing a natural interest, we would be segregating him.
I'm sure if you meet the opposite sex outside of school as your son does, it helps with any awkwardness, but that is not the same as being educated alongside girls; single sex schooling just seems artificial to me, but that is coming from my co-ed comprehensive school background.

DS will sit the entrance exam in January and we will await the results and the interview with the Headteacher and see what happens on secondary allocation day in March.
I just wish that DH and I agreed on the choice of school; private v state, co-ed v single sex.

We both agree that we want what's best for our child, including him doing well and being happy at school, but we are coming to different conclusions, no doubt based on our own differing educational experiences.

I think in your situation I would really look into potential 13+ places and use that as an argument. This way you get a good 2 years in the state and if you DH is really unhappy than you can move your son and save a few years of fees. Even if the school aren't able to provide dyslexia support, paying for a tutor is much cheaper than fees and in the fee paying school you'll most likely be paying that on top anyway, so I also don't really see the point.
The grandparents can sod off unless they have a spare 20k they'd like to fork out.

That's a very good point Dodgeitornot and I think that will may well have to be my approach as it is a compromise that leaves the private school option open, as if the state school really doesn't work out, then there is always the option of 13+ entry to a private school.
Also, as as you rightly point out, we would have saved over £30,000 in school fees, and we could pay for a hell of a lot of tutoring for that; seeing it written down makes me realise what a financial commitment it would be!

It is a huge commitment. Not to berate your DH, I'm sure he has the best intentions at heart but he sounds like he went to a crap prep and a crap state school and just wants the best for his son, wrongly thinking that paid must mean good.
Both st Alban's and st Columba's have 13+, might give the grandparents a few years to save 😉

Have you looked at Townsend? Not the top of most people's list but I have heard from a few people that the SEN support is really good. No personal experience of it though.

No, I've not considered Townsend, as it's not that well regarded, although I have heard that it seem to be improving and that it's SEN support is meant to be good.

My son is at St Columbas and has extra help. I have found the school really good for support, but what I like most is the small classes and genuine care for each child.

Hi Anon, we are considering St Columbas for our 5 year old next year and wanted to check if you are still happy at the school? Our son has dyspraxia and would need to have some extra support. Thanks so much.